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Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

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Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#111

Post by baq »

philwelch wrote: post #86
toomuchtodo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not unreasonable to heavily critique the fact that Tesla deadlines are blown repeatedly, and yet who among us has gone from 0 to 300k+ vehicles manufacturer and sold per year in 12 years and delivered an EV into an elliptical orbit with a privately developed heavy lift vehicle? Don’t say something is impossible while someone else is delivering, slowly and missed deadlines or not. @sbov (deleted reply while I was…

Musk doesn’t run SpaceX. Gwynne Shotwell does.

Yeah and when Musk tweets, Gwynne needs to emergency hop on an intercontinental flight to calm down the customer.

Disclaimer: fan of spacex

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#112

Post by leesec »

Once again I gotta say the negativity is astounding. People are so stoked to be rooting for this American tech company to fail. I really don't get it.

The main gripe I see is that Tesla misses deadlines or makes promises they cannot fulfill. Is this not super common in nearly every industry? Have none of you missed deadlines?

I remember this article[1]from last year stating GM would release fully autonomous cars with no steering wheel in 2019! Yet clearly that is not going to happen and I never heard any backlash, but I guess it's not cool to hate GM.

I also am astounded to see people constantly saying Autonomy is a decade+ away. They already have cars driving people 95% of their miles, which would've seemed impossible 6 years ago, and yet here we are, and the last 5% is going to take a decade? How many times are people going to doubt Elon before they realize they're betting against someone whose done the impossible many times over.

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/12/16880978/gm-autonomous-ca...

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#114

Post by mhermher »

trickstra wrote: post #77
sagarm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of autonomy in three years myself, but embedded engineers are hardly a convincing authority on the subject.

Were you also skeptical about landing orbital rockets 5 years ago?

Wasnt that done in the 90s? Why be skeptical it could be done?

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#115

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #87
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas. There are no fully autonomous cars, he'd have to break entirely new ground for that.

> Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas. Not at all. I'm unaware of any other heavy lift vehicles developed by a non-government entity that fly for $90 million (versus Delta Heavy's $350 million cost) and are completely reus…

There seems to be more than a few auto companies made in the last century[1]. I'm not saying he's not making these things better, but they existed previous to his invention - which bits of the lifter are completely novel? Complete automation would be entirely novel - it's not just a matter of finding a cheaper/better way to do it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacture...

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#116

Post by frontloadpro »

oldjokes wrote: post #44
pdq wrote: post #12

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual,…

It's becoming hard to believe anything that Tesla puts out or Elon says. It is a real shame the $35K 3 turned out to be a lie, the amount of PR that phrase has generated over the years is on par with all of SpaceX.

SpaceX is a government subsidized advertisment.

From the outside, I am learning a lot about how to build a cult following with other people's money and dreams.

I'm not kidding either.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#117

Post by dwighttk »

leesec wrote: post #112

Once again I gotta say the negativity is astounding. People are so stoked to be rooting for this American tech company to fail. I really don't get it. The main gripe I see is that Tesla misses deadlines or makes promises they cannot fulfill. Is this not super common in nearly every industry? Have none of you missed deadlines? I remember this article[1]from last year stating GM would release fully autonomous cars with…

>They already have cars driving people 95% of their miles

I'm skeptical. I'd be surprised if more than 40% of my miles were freeway.

Call me when we have fully autonomous trains and then I'll start thinking about losing my skepticism about autonomous cars.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#118

Post by trickstra »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #87
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas. There are no fully autonomous cars, he'd have to break entirely new ground for that.

> Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas. Not at all. I'm unaware of any other heavy lift vehicles developed by a non-government entity that fly for $90 million (versus Delta Heavy's $350 million cost) and are completely reus…

fairings will be reused from this FH launch, so the only part not being reused is the second stage.

Who cares that the "promised" deadline for Falcon Heavy and rapid reusability was also blown several times. This result is something completely unimaginable couple of years ago and nobody is currently able to match it. It will be similar with Tesla, only much more people feel entitled to talk about cars than rockets, so they forget the bigger picture.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#119

Post by mhermher »

philwelch wrote: post #92
pdq wrote: post #12

Per the new lease: "Please note, customers who choose leasing over owning will not have the option to purchase their car at the end of the lease, because with full autonomy coming in the future via an over-the-air software update, we plan to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Elon once again promising fully autonomous vehicles in 3 years. Also, isn't this a rental? A lease normally has a residual,…

Tesla’s self-driving promises are reaching Theranos levels of sheer implausibility. The frustrating part is that they don’t need to make these absurd claims about self-driving; they already have a successful electric car business.

You're not digging deep enough. The reason they need to hype it is because they don't have one.

Re: Tesla Shakes Up Model 3 Lineup

#120

Post by toomuchtodo »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #115
toomuchtodo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren't those solved problems though? Like, you're talking manufacturing and scaling up production, and there are other examples of heavy lift vehicles. While they are absolutely great accomplishments, it's tweaks on previous formulas. Not at all. I'm unaware of any other heavy lift vehicles developed by a non-government entity that fly for $90 million (versus Delta Heavy's $350 million cost) and are completely reus…

There seems to be more than a few auto companies made in the last century[1]. I'm not saying he's not making these things better, but they existed previous to his invention - which bits of the lifter are completely novel? Complete automation would be entirely novel - it's not just a matter of finding a cheaper/better way to do it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacture...

Novelty doesn't define success. No car company has previously existed that is scaling towards 500k EVs delivered per year, with the capability to manufacture 135GW of energy storage per year. The Horndale Power Reserve in Australia has not only saved Australian energy consumers tens of millions of dollars, but proved that utility scale energy storage could be rapidly deployed and is cost effective.

If these problems are easy, why is Tesla the first to seek solutions to them? Why did Tesla have to struggle to prove the validity of EVs to the public while European car makers committed fraud with diesel emissions? If you're an established car maker, how bad at manufacturing, supply chain management, and product development do you have to be that you can't compete against Tesla with EVs? Questions are rhetorical.

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