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Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

public-sans.digital.gov

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Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#111

Post by dev_dull »

jancsika wrote: post #87

Before I submit a bug report-- is there a good reason that the zero isn't dotted in this font? For example, executive order numbers have both "O" and "0" appearing in them. But I'm sure there are stronger examples in various gov't depts. where those characters can occur in sequence and create errors. Not to mention any code snippets that already appear in government web sites. I suppose the extra ink could be a conce…

I’m wondering that myself. It makes a BIG difference to me when strings appear out of context. With zeros and Os together it can be very confusing, and the dot or slash makes a big difference.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#112

Post by cmroanirgo »

eddietejeda wrote: post #41
2bitencryption wrote: post #3

This is so interesting. These modern sites clash really hard with my mental visual of "Government technology." And it led me to this, which is maybe even more interesting: https://federalist.18f.gov/

Yup. I run Federalist at 18F and absolutely love the work, the challenge and colleagues. We do everything in the open, so feel free to follow our work here: https://github.com/18F/federalist We also implement the USWDS, which you can follow here: https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll Let me know if you have any questions!

I was very pleasantly surprised by USWDS, so great work to everyone involved!

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#113

Post by dredmorbius »

delinka wrote: post #92
UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #48

Looks decent, but "I" "O" and "0" could be improved.

Improved for what use case? This is not a font I'd expect anyone to write code in (to each his own, however.) Context will determine how a particular character is read.

Governments frequently publish references in which accurate literal transcription is necessary; law, regulation, and (legal) code references, identifiers, and the like.

1lO05S and other commonly-confused characters are best clearly distinguished.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#114

Post by dclowd9901 »

vesinisa wrote: post #90
eddietejeda wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I run Federalist at 18F and absolutely love the work, the challenge and colleagues. We do everything in the open, so feel free to follow our work here: https://github.com/18F/federalist We also implement the USWDS, which you can follow here: https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll Let me know if you have any questions!

I must applaud your legislators for their foresight when they wrote the federal copyright charter. All works by. U.S. federal employees are in public domain, forming one of the planet's largest bodies of free online resources. The cultural impact of this collection is considerable also globally. In my country, all tax-funded government works are copyrighted. It's an ongoing battle to make each department release thei…

Applaud us when getting FOIA requests responded to doesn’t require retaining lawyers.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#115

Post by codetrotter »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #114
vesinisa wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must applaud your legislators for their foresight when they wrote the federal copyright charter. All works by. U.S. federal employees are in public domain, forming one of the planet's largest bodies of free online resources. The cultural impact of this collection is considerable also globally. In my country, all tax-funded government works are copyrighted. It's an ongoing battle to make each department release thei…

Applaud us when getting FOIA requests responded to doesn’t require retaining lawyers.

We should always demand more from our governments. But we should also celebrate them for doing good. The politicians and government workers are people too, and while different people have different motivations I know that I am not alone in valuing praise from others highly.

If all someone hears is complaints, I think they are probably more likely to burn out. I don’t have any source to back this claim, but it’s how I think it is.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#116

Post by mortenjorck »

saagarjha wrote: post #94
jancsika wrote: post #87

Before I submit a bug report-- is there a good reason that the zero isn't dotted in this font? For example, executive order numbers have both "O" and "0" appearing in them. But I'm sure there are stronger examples in various gov't depts. where those characters can occur in sequence and create errors. Not to mention any code snippets that already appear in government web sites. I suppose the extra ink could be a conce…

I'm not sure the zero should be dotted/slashed by default, but it doesn't look like the font has a variant for it either…

I wouldn’t put it in the standard numerals, but it could work in the lining/tabular figures. If nothing else, this would be a good place to use an OpenType stylistic set: https://typofonderie.com/font-support/opentype-features/

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#117

Post by carapace »

Someone1234 wrote: post #79
dpcx wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.

Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit. That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript ( I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to AD…

As one of "those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript" this comment is pretty disappointing.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#118

Post by lwf »

Someone1234 wrote: post #79
dpcx wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.

Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit. That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript ( I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to AD…

Working without JS is still a core requirement of GDS sites; c.f. https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi...

and for more as to why: https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/10/21/how-many-people-are-missi...

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#119

Post by phkahler »

eddietejeda wrote: post #41
2bitencryption wrote: post #3

This is so interesting. These modern sites clash really hard with my mental visual of "Government technology." And it led me to this, which is maybe even more interesting: https://federalist.18f.gov/

Yup. I run Federalist at 18F and absolutely love the work, the challenge and colleagues. We do everything in the open, so feel free to follow our work here: https://github.com/18F/federalist We also implement the USWDS, which you can follow here: https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll Let me know if you have any questions!

>> Let me know if you have any questions!

If this is meant for web sites, I have a question and I ask this on HN a lot. Why does the government need to provide ANY fonts? I have a real problem with websites pushing their own fonts on users. I don't think it's their place. Users should select their preferred font in their own browser. Why would a US government site feel the need to use particular fonts?

If this is for publishing in .pdf format I can understand. If it's for web, I just don't get it.

Re: Public Sans – A strong, neutral typeface for text or display

#120

Post by snazz »

legitster wrote: post #78
citizenkeen wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a neutral font?

If they pick a font, even an open source one, it could encourage people to copy them. Or be making some (very minor) statement about open source. By developing their own font, they don't set preference for any organization, group, or business.

They do develop it on GitHub, which I would consider to be a stronger statement than font choice.
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