Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

schub.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 281 posts

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#111

Post by jpatokal »

dsl wrote: post #90
kmonsen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian intelligence service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service

That is the FSB (or (ФСБ). FSM isn't the acronym or a transliteration of any known national intelligence service. FSB - Federal Security Service, Russia MSS - Ministry of State Security, China DGSE - General Directorate for External Security, France FSM - Federated States of Micronesia National Police would be my best guess. They do dignitary protection and counter-narcotics, so I would assume they have at least some…

Given that Micronesia has a population of 100k, I wouldn't worry too much about their secret service.

I presume OP meant FSM as in Flying Spaghetti Monster as a stand-in for any organization that might wish to spy on you with its noodly appendages.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#112

Post by thinkloop »

It all comes down to this:

> With a VPN, all you end up doing is shifting the trust from one party to another. You are not gaining anything.

This is where a lot of people would disagree. A known, reputable, audited, privacy-focused vpn provider, for example, could be more trustworthy than an ISP.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#113

Post by thinkloop »

lifthrasiir wrote: post #87
cantrevealname wrote: post #57

> If you are using your device on a public network, VPNs can help you protect your data. I have a ProtonVPN subscription myself, just for those instances where I am sitting in an airport waiting for my plane Seems like a contradictory message. He just got through telling us how most of the web is now end-to-end encrypted with HTTPS. So why does he need a VPN at the airport? Is he checking his email? I can't imagine t…

He made this point explicit: > Networks like these make it easy for attackers to get a copy of your network data, and if you send something unencrypted, the results can be quite harmful. The web should be ideally end-to-end encrypted with HTTPS. But in case this assumption breaks down, VPN gives an additional headroom for security. Not much (as explained in the article, and thus should not be advertised so), but stil…

The VPN only protects the first hop, it would not be a good backup for https.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#114

Post by ben509 »

brobinson wrote: post #6

>However, the sad reality is, there is no such thing as a “no logs” VPN. Because running it would technically be impossible. PIA has told the feds in the US to fuck off multiple times when asked for logs. You can't provide what you don't have, and lying to the feds is a fast track to PMITA prison (PIA is based in the US). I feel pretty confident they're not risking prison to cover for Joe Blow subscriber. Other "no l…

> You can't provide what you don't have, and lying to the feds is a fast track to PMITA prison

White collar criminals typically go to Club Fed, though.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#115

Post by lifthrasiir »

thinkloop wrote: post #113
lifthrasiir wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made this point explicit: > Networks like these make it easy for attackers to get a copy of your network data, and if you send something unencrypted, the results can be quite harmful. The web should be ideally end-to-end encrypted with HTTPS. But in case this assumption breaks down, VPN gives an additional headroom for security. Not much (as explained in the article, and thus should not be advertised so), but stil…

The VPN only protects the first hop, it would not be a good backup for https.

Yes, but if the target site does not use https there is no alternative.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#116

Post by mirimir »

tptacek wrote: post #9
brobinson wrote: post #6

>However, the sad reality is, there is no such thing as a “no logs” VPN. Because running it would technically be impossible. PIA has told the feds in the US to fuck off multiple times when asked for logs. You can't provide what you don't have, and lying to the feds is a fast track to PMITA prison (PIA is based in the US). I feel pretty confident they're not risking prison to cover for Joe Blow subscriber. Other "no l…

Who cares if they log now? They can be forced to log --- and are in fact running businesses the practically beg the DOJ to force them to log.

So how would the US government force Insorg, which is Russian, to log?

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#117

Post by netwanderer3 »

danShumway wrote: post #56
netwanderer3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use Chrome browser or Android phone then Google is already able to build a profile on you. They have multiple ways to ID every session and individual browsing tab to link them back to your profile. VPN is completely irrelevant in their game.

If Google has my data, does that mean I should also give it to Comcast? This kind of argument comes up a lot, and I really don't understand it, at all. Privacy is a process, it's something you improve over time. The alternative is completely circular. I shouldn't care about switching to Firefox, because my ISP is already getting all this data anyway, and I shouldn't care about using a VPN because Google is getting al…

My point is if you are trying to prevent someone to build a profile on you entirely then VPN is useless.

For majority of the public who use a VPN provider, they are essentially shifting all the risks of their personal privacy from a highly regulated industry (ISP) to one that is much less regulated (VPN providers). This is a bit similar to all the ICO scams associated with an unregulated cryptocurrency industry. ISP at least will not sell your data to questionable buyers, but there's no law in preventing a VPN provider not to do so.

If you truly believe VPN providers can survive giving you unlimited bandwidth worldwide for only a few bucks a month, without relying on other sources of revenue, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Most of them don't operate with transparency, not being audited nor being accountable or required by regulation to keep your data safe but yeah let's trust them instead!

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#118

Post by dvcrn »

mirimir wrote: post #110
dvcrn wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also interested in this! Also why VPN vs just setting up one yourself on digitalocean or something like that? (The reason why I'm not with a VPN yet is because it would compromise my speed. Am I overestimating the impact?)

If you setup your own VPN on some leased VPS, then you're the only user. So there's zero help re anonymity. And re privacy and security, you need to trust the VPS provider. No free lunch :(

But a VPS on DO, AWS or gcloud also has numerous services on the same physical machine. It's not like every request coming from that machine is from you or am I missing your point?

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#119

Post by codexon »

VPNs still give you some protection especially for illegal activities.

I was recently a victim of a password cracking attempt from someone using a vpn. I tried reporting the incident by sending the logs to the vpn abuse email, and they ignored it. I looked into VPN company itself, and it was owned by some Russian in Panama. I tried emailing a lawyer there and he said that he couldn't help me because he did work for that person.

I have no doubt that most of the major vpn providers are similarly structured so that they can just ignore all complaints except from the largest corporations.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#120

Post by m3nu »

The real problem with VPNs is that they are sold as a full privacy and security solution to people who don't understand what's going on technically.

There are some legitimate reasons to use a VPN. Those are far fewer than the marketing claims of those companies. What I've seen over time:

* hide your IP from the service you're using (related to geoblocking)

* get around limitations of your ISP (blocked ports or throttling, torrenting)

* hide traffic/service you use from your ISP/government (China, UAE, Iran)

* get around bad routing of your ISP

Post reply on HN