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Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#111

Post by huffmsa »

vanderZwan wrote: post #107
huffmsa wrote: post #100

This is new news? O thought it was established a while ago that humans have only made the progress we have because of an increase in animal fat consumption. Hell, with a few exceptions, you can cluster mammals in a pretty accurate grouping of intelligence by the percentage of animal fat in their diet.

It's an ongoing debate: > In a wide-ranging review published in February’s issue of Current Anthropology, Thompson joins a team of researchers to weave together several strands of recent evidence and propose a new theory about the transition to large animal consumption by our ancestors. The prevailing view, supported by a confluence of fossil evidence from sites in Ethiopia, is that the emergence of flaked tool use a…

> Plus, I'm sure there is some kind of power-fantasy attachment to the older theory that basically puts humans on top of the food chain as apex predators due to our intelligence.

Probably has more weight than it'll ever be given credit for.

"Early man noticed cats and hyenas are bigger, faster, stronger, starts picking the bones of their kills. Hundreds of generations later, man's need for more fat and meat exceeds what's available from scavenging. With his increased brain and brawn, he begins digging pungee pits to kill his own animals."

Not very glamorous.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#112

Post by vanderZwan »

huffmsa wrote: post #111
vanderZwan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an ongoing debate: > In a wide-ranging review published in February’s issue of Current Anthropology, Thompson joins a team of researchers to weave together several strands of recent evidence and propose a new theory about the transition to large animal consumption by our ancestors. The prevailing view, supported by a confluence of fossil evidence from sites in Ethiopia, is that the emergence of flaked tool use a…

> Plus, I'm sure there is some kind of power-fantasy attachment to the older theory that basically puts humans on top of the food chain as apex predators due to our intelligence. Probably has more weight than it'll ever be given credit for. "Early man noticed cats and hyenas are bigger, faster, stronger, starts picking the bones of their kills. Hundreds of generations later, man's need for more fat and meat exceeds w…

> Probably has more weight than it'll ever be given credit for.

Well, there is one way out: once the previous generation loses power, the next one can feel smugly superior by saying how petty they were.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#113

Post by MisterTea »

burtonator wrote: post #8

One of the first human foods was actually bone marrow which is basically pure fat. This happened about 2MYA by Homo habilis who figured out that you could use rocks to bust open bones. Lions and Hyenas would leave huge piles of bones in the middle of the dessert which had been picked clean by vultures. One of our ancestors had the brilliant idea to use a rock to bust open the bones. Well it's a massive source of free…

> Next time you're out at a fancy restaurant and they have bone marrow GET IT..

As a child I remember enjoying lamb chops, but specifically remember going straight for the delicious yet delicate marrow. I'd suck it out or poke around the short piece of bone with knife to scrape it all out. My parents would even give me their bones pieces to eat while telling me "that's the best part!". Turns out they weren't kidding.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#114

Post by msiyer »

knowThySelfx wrote: post #71

Ghee is considered "Brain food" in Indian culture. It is included in many food items and also in Ayurvedic Meds. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/amp39Gheeamp39-and-its-m...

Poisons in very low quantity are used to treat diseases. Could it be that Ayurveda uses milk to treat the imbalance of the "doshas"?

As a food, Ghee was used so very sparingly that it was almost not used at all. We cannot compare the quantities we consume today with those before the Dairy Revolution.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#115

Post by bluedino »

mancerayder wrote: post #22
burtonator wrote: post #8

One of the first human foods was actually bone marrow which is basically pure fat. This happened about 2MYA by Homo habilis who figured out that you could use rocks to bust open bones. Lions and Hyenas would leave huge piles of bones in the middle of the dessert which had been picked clean by vultures. One of our ancestors had the brilliant idea to use a rock to bust open the bones. Well it's a massive source of free…

Lions and Hyenas would leave huge piles of bones in the middle of the dessert which had been picked clean by vultures. One of our ancestors had the brilliant idea to use a rock to bust open the bones. Wait - I thought hyenas were specifically bone-busting / eating: "Spotted hyenas are some of Africa's most proficient predators. A frenzied scrum of them can dismantle and devour a 400-pound zebra in 25 minutes. An adul…

I was going to say...haven't you ever seen a dog go after a bone?

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#116

Post by bluedino »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #92
Phenomenit wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brains are only developed if there is an advantage and I guess a brain without fingers, our eyes etc isn't maybe as useful as using the fat for energy.

Yp, brain uses tremendous amount of energy so there's a cost. Use too much of it to build the brain and you starve...use too little and same result since you're outsmarted. Rinse repeat until it's perfected.

Heyenas have 2 extra legs to waste energy on. Not much left in the budget for a big brain.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#117

Post by village-idiot »

Larrikin wrote: post #66
village-idiot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve selectively bred our fruit for a millennia or two to make it significantly larger and sweeter than the versions we evolved with. The advent of pesticides as exacerbated the problem, as pesticide sprayed fruits produce a much lower level of useful anti-oxidants.

I guess it depends on the country. Fruit and vegetables in the US have had most of the taste bred out of them in favor of produce that can survive transportation while still looking good and will last a long time on the shelf and fridge.

America probably goes the furthest in this regard, but the trend is also older than America the country.

Examples:

The strawberries you and I eat are actually a hybrid species created in 1715. The wild variety, the woodland strawberry, is about 1/4 the size and much more tart.

Bananas largely come from one of two species, the main one having been domesticated 8,000 years ago. Humans of that era domesticated it for some reason other than the fruit, because the fruit was inedible, it took a few thousand years before we could eat it.

The lemon was hybridized citron and the bitter orange around 1100. Citron has a very thing rind, with the edible center part being typically the size of a golf ball. The bitter orange is ... not very sweet.

The oranges you and I buy in the store, tellingly called the “sweet orange” is a hybrid first mentioned in 314CE.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#118

Post by paines »

burtonator wrote: post #8

One of the first human foods was actually bone marrow which is basically pure fat. This happened about 2MYA by Homo habilis who figured out that you could use rocks to bust open bones. Lions and Hyenas would leave huge piles of bones in the middle of the dessert which had been picked clean by vultures. One of our ancestors had the brilliant idea to use a rock to bust open the bones. Well it's a massive source of free…

How about Pho which relies, at least in nothern Vietnam, heavily on bone marrow? You need to cook the bones IIRC at least 12 hours until the marrow dissolves. Does the long cooking process "harm" any nutrions?

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#119

Post by chmod775 »

msiyer wrote: post #81
burtonator wrote: post #8

One of the first human foods was actually bone marrow which is basically pure fat. This happened about 2MYA by Homo habilis who figured out that you could use rocks to bust open bones. Lions and Hyenas would leave huge piles of bones in the middle of the dessert which had been picked clean by vultures. One of our ancestors had the brilliant idea to use a rock to bust open the bones. Well it's a massive source of free…

How can bone marrow be one of the first human foods? Humans had to learn the use of tools first to access bone marrow. Humans needed a better brain to figure out how to create and use tools. Also, predators are very intelligent. They can and will break open bones. Domestic dogs do that. Hyenas are renowned for their bone-crushing abilities. Bone marrow is not the only source of fat. There are plenty of plant-based fo…

Most - if not all - primates can use simple tools like rocks to crush things. Our ancestors used the simplest of tools even before they were considered human.

Re: Fat, Not Meat, May Have Led to Bigger Hominin Brains

#120

Post by glastra »

sc4les wrote: post #95
chiefalchemist wrote: post #30

Makes sense. The brain needs fuel. Without adequate fuel there's no way for it to grow, unless the body gave up some of its need for the same fuel. So I would presume there's that as well. That is, the body also evolved to feed the brain.

Well fat to grow but it burns sugar

It can burn glucose (table sugar is sucrose).

It can also burn other stuff [0] and have almost no requirements for glucose, all of which can be provided through gluconeogenesis from amino acids and the glycerol backbone of fat.

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874681/

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