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Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

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Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#111

Post by CompelTechnic »

I agree that facebook's advertising practices allowed for illegal discrimination. A good case of "move fast and break things." Some journalists go farther though, and suggest that even the concept of a credit score is racist.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/13/your-c...

Consider the 2 possible worlds: 1. One in which disadvantaged minorities have poor credit because of their poor socioeconomic status. Once statistical controls are used to control for socioeconomic status, all ethnic groups are equivalent. 2. One in which, even after controlling for socioeconomic status, disadvantaged minorities still have worse credit than the general population.

In both of these worlds, race can be used as a weak predictor of credit quality. Many of the moral claims made by The Guardian are absurd, and overly protectionist.

>The insidious notion that our credit history speaks to our reliability as human beings is largely taken for granted.

If you, as a business owner, had to choose to hire someone with a good credit score or a bad one, all else being equal, what would you choose? Conscientiousness and intelligence both correlate with socioeconomic status, both being good traits for a worker.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#112

Post by bearcobra »

CompelTechnic wrote: post #111

I agree that facebook's advertising practices allowed for illegal discrimination. A good case of "move fast and break things." Some journalists go farther though, and suggest that even the concept of a credit score is racist. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/13/your-c... Consider the 2 possible worlds: 1. One in which disadvantaged minorities have poor credit because of their poor socioeconomic stat…

As an owner, I don't know why the finances of my employee should be any of my business. Even in assessing credit worthiness, there are plenty of flaws with the current system.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#113

Post by will_brown »

notacoward wrote: post #110
will_brown wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Federal Government does go after illegal arms dealers, so I’m not sure your point. Otherwise arms dealers have a federal law that protects them in gun/ammo sales from the acts of their buyers. That said notwithstanding federal protections arms dealers can be liable for the acts of their buyers if the seller knew or should have known the buyer was making the purchase to commit a crime. Here FB knew or should have…

> Why do you think it’s right to go after the ad creator only Never said or suggested any such thing. In fact I've explicitly said that assigning some responsibility to the publisher seems reasonable. What I find questionable is the singular targeting of one publisher but neither the advertisers nor other publishers. That's not how one fights for equality or justice, so there must be some other goal.

The Gov can and maybe even will go after the individual advertisers.

>That's not how one fights for equality or justice, so there must be some other goal.

It happens all the time, for example, low level drug dealers or even arms dealers are given immunity just for cooperation and just the chance to go after the suppliers. It’s easy to say well, there is some other goal, but generally the goal is to combat the illegal activity.

Another example, which I have been using for years is Uber. Many Uber drivers have been arrested and/or civilly fined for illegally operating rides for hire without a permit. Yet despite all the arrests no law enforcement ever went after the company but only the drivers. I think this is one of the biggest injustices of our time, you have a multi billion dollar tech company hiring “contractors” to knowing break the law (in those jurisdictions) and then only punishing the individuals who are basically being exploited (i say this because Uber knew the acitivity was illegal in those jurisdictions, but they kept hiring drivers and scheduling rides in violation of the law, whereas the drivers didn’t necessarily know they were being hired to provide illegal rides). In some cases Uber even paid bonuses to drivers to leave jurisdictions where operations were legal to give rides in jurisdictions where it was illegal.

Is that really equality and justice to you? If law enforcement went after uber instead of the driver is that really indiciative by itself of another goal rather than stopping the illegal activity?

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#114

Post by brightball »

CompelTechnic wrote: post #111

I agree that facebook's advertising practices allowed for illegal discrimination. A good case of "move fast and break things." Some journalists go farther though, and suggest that even the concept of a credit score is racist. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/13/your-c... Consider the 2 possible worlds: 1. One in which disadvantaged minorities have poor credit because of their poor socioeconomic stat…

I've really never understood the point of using credit scores when hiring.

I completely understand it when making decisions on actually loaning money, leasing agreement, etc...

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#115

Post by kingbirdy »

brightball wrote: post #114
CompelTechnic wrote: post #111

I agree that facebook's advertising practices allowed for illegal discrimination. A good case of "move fast and break things." Some journalists go farther though, and suggest that even the concept of a credit score is racist. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/13/your-c... Consider the 2 possible worlds: 1. One in which disadvantaged minorities have poor credit because of their poor socioeconomic stat…

I've really never understood the point of using credit scores when hiring. I completely understand it when making decisions on actually loaning money, leasing agreement, etc...

If you're hiring someone who would have access to valuable information that could be sold, who would have information before the market, or who could potentially be paid to sabotage the company, it's important to ensure the candidate has good credit so they're less likely to do those things, since they at least wouldn't feel a financial pressure to do so and would only do it out of greed.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#116

Post by tschellenbach »

Weird that they go after the ad platform instead of the advertisers. Pretty sure magazines also publish stats about their members enabling advertisers to specifically target a certain demographic. Actually the NYTimes does this as well: https://nytmediakit.com/index.php?p=sunday-magazine

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#117

Post by tantalor »

tschellenbach wrote: post #116

Weird that they go after the ad platform instead of the advertisers. Pretty sure magazines also publish stats about their members enabling advertisers to specifically target a certain demographic. Actually the NYTimes does this as well: https://nytmediakit.com/index.php?p=sunday-magazine

Nothing prevents racial minorities purchasing a magazine, unlike FB ads.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#118

Post by mAEStro-paNDa »

CompelTechnic wrote: post #111

I agree that facebook's advertising practices allowed for illegal discrimination. A good case of "move fast and break things." Some journalists go farther though, and suggest that even the concept of a credit score is racist. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/13/your-c... Consider the 2 possible worlds: 1. One in which disadvantaged minorities have poor credit because of their poor socioeconomic stat…

I'm not so sure that saying the concept of a credit score is racist is quite the same as saying credit scores perpetuate and reflect racial injustice/inequalities.

Moreover, the article you cited isn't simply making moral claims, but specific examples. In addition, there is a well documented history of racial discrimination within the financial sector (see the Fair Housing Act).

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#119

Post by CompanionCuuube »

mcguire wrote: post #52
empath75 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're actually not allowed to do that unless the sale was illegal.

They're specifically not allowed to do that because the gun manufacturing and sales industry's lobby realized it would essentially kill gun sales.

Yes, that would be the consequence of allowing frivolous lawsuits to be brought against companies simply because you don't like the product.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#120

Post by aaomidi »

kingbirdy wrote: post #115
brightball wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've really never understood the point of using credit scores when hiring. I completely understand it when making decisions on actually loaning money, leasing agreement, etc...

If you're hiring someone who would have access to valuable information that could be sold, who would have information before the market, or who could potentially be paid to sabotage the company, it's important to ensure the candidate has good credit so they're less likely to do those things, since they at least wouldn't feel a financial pressure to do so and would only do it out of greed.

Is there direct evidence this is true or is it just a "common sense" thing that makes sense but might very well be false?
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