E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets • Hacker News Board

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#111

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

ElBarto wrote: post #15

alkonaut wrote: post #2

So this isn't just banning from airports , this is banning from their airspace ? That's then more or less a total grounding of them in Europe. As an example, Norwegian (who has 15 of them) said they weren't grounding them as late as this morning, but now they'll have no choice. They use them mainly for their medium flights between scandinavia and southern europe (Nice, Budapest, Tenerife etc). No way they can do that…

A potentially interesting tidbit from Norwegian's Wikipedia page: > Diversion to Shiraz, Iran December 2018 > A Norwegian Boeing 737 MAX suffered an unspecified technical failure over Iran in December 2018. The pilot made a precautionary landing at Shiraz Shahid Dastgheib International Airport without incident. Spare parts required to make the aircraft airworthy were not available in the world outside the United Stat…

[deleted]

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#112

Post by wnkrshm » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

w0utert wrote: post #54

notfromhere wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that was the big selling point since airlines hate retraining pilots. Totally backfired in that regard though.

It sounds really stupid for Boeing if you put it that way. I can imagine it looks good on the marketing material, 'no pilot retraining required!', but as far as I understand from all the analysis so far, it's actually not that hard to disable the new MCAS system and prevent a crash. As a pilot you only need to know it is there, and what happens if it somehow fails. I would be surprised if they had sold even a single…

I also wonder about the engineers involved, what they think about the system and whether it was created expressly for getting around retraining, realizing late into the project that the changes to the in-flight behavior of the plane may have been too much.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#113

Post by rtkwe » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #64

ak217 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. This is pretty ridiculous considering all three of these planes seem to have been closer to their destination than the origin, making it safer to just finish the planned flight.

If the plane is going to get grounded, the operator absolutely wants that to happen at home base, not at an outstation.

edit: NVM missed that these were mostly Turkish Airlines not Norwegian.

2/3 of those planes are flying back to Istanbul vs their destinations. Does Norwegian have a maintenance hub there?

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#114

Post by vkou » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

Just two days ago, people were poo-pooing China for doing the same exact thing, referencing political interference, protectionism, and setting all sorts of other ill deeds at the doors of their regulators.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#115

Post by m2ndpixel » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #2

So this isn't just banning from airports , this is banning from their airspace ? That's then more or less a total grounding of them in Europe. As an example, Norwegian (who has 15 of them) said they weren't grounding them as late as this morning, but now they'll have no choice. They use them mainly for their medium flights between scandinavia and southern europe (Nice, Budapest, Tenerife etc). No way they can do that…

Banned in the entire EU now: https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-and-events/news/easa-sus...

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#116

Post by usrusr » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #35

paganel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like Norwegian is already asking its 737 Max flights to return to their departing airports, at least according to this recent screenshot I found on reddit [1] [1] https://i.redd.it/6gtecemacpl21.png

I speculate we’ll see more airspace closures once countries give enough time to avoid stranding their nationals. I wonder if, say, Germany, waited until its planes had to chance to land before closing their airspace, while other countries/companies, like Norwegian got caught by surprise. Convenience over safety? Total speculation on my part.

The closest thing to a German 737 MAX are 15 owned by TUI, which seem to all be based in the UK.

There hasn't been much fleet renewal in the German market in recent years, just lots of consolidation (it's actually a bit of a lottery to buy a ticket in advance due to all the bankruptcies)

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#117

Post by tapland » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #97

jsty wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although if you'd realised it was a 737 MAX, you might already be clutching a medicinal gin & tonic ...

> Although if you'd realised it was a 737 MAX, you might already be clutching a medicinal gin & tonic ... I wouldn't, haven't all the problems so far have been during takeoff? So once you're cruising you're safe from them?

12 and 6 minutes after take-off.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#118

Post by qw » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

erokar wrote: post #11

alkonaut wrote: post #2

So this isn't just banning from airports , this is banning from their airspace ? That's then more or less a total grounding of them in Europe. As an example, Norwegian (who has 15 of them) said they weren't grounding them as late as this morning, but now they'll have no choice. They use them mainly for their medium flights between scandinavia and southern europe (Nice, Budapest, Tenerife etc). No way they can do that…

Indeed. Norwegian is doing this because the optics now force them to do so, not self-assessment of the risk. They, and the Norwegian Civil Aviation Authority, failed in that regard.

Norway also closed the airspace 40min ago

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#119

Post by anoncoward111 » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #109

At the gym today, on all the TVs, the media talking heads were crucifying the FAA for being "unsafe" or playing fast and loose with passenger safety (for not grounding the planes). I've always held the FAA in high regard, and think they do a good job. Are they really being negligent here? Or is the media just looking for something to spark outrage? Can anyone with more specific knowledge of aircraft safety weigh in?

Two crashes in 6 months and there's only 350 planes in existence is a pretty bad safety record that is probably on par with Tupolev.

The US can tacitly blame "third world" pilots all they want, but with 300 people dead already, I think it's important for the FAA and Boeing to say exactly what is going on, especially since the planes are in use in the USA.

There is a debate over if the plane's hardware, software, or pilots are at fault-- either the planes should be grounded or the exact protocol should be published all over for the world to know, since it is the passengers' lives at stake.

Re: E.U.’s Biggest Economies Ban Boeing Max 8 Jets

#120

Post by ratsmack » Tue, Mar 12, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

eric_b wrote: post #109

At the gym today, on all the TVs, the media talking heads were crucifying the FAA for being "unsafe" or playing fast and loose with passenger safety (for not grounding the planes). I've always held the FAA in high regard, and think they do a good job. Are they really being negligent here? Or is the media just looking for something to spark outrage? Can anyone with more specific knowledge of aircraft safety weigh in?

"News" today is a "for profit" enterprise and they will take advantage crises and public outrage to bolster their bottom lines when the opportunity arises... it's nothing personal, it's just the nature of the beast.