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Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

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Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#111

Post by everdrive »

dijit wrote: post #9

I feel like this is fair. People like to paint enemies of the east while essentially letting the west get away with much more heinous stuff. The difference of course is that we implicitly trust US tech companies, of course we do, nobody else has such a monopoly on CPUs and Operating System production. Not to mention web browsers and all kinds of technology. Avoiding the USA in your tech stack is quite literally impos…

If we accept this moral equivalency, it still doesn't make support or acceptance of Huawei OK.

This line of argument is all about moral blame, and not related to practical outcome. Correctly morally blaming the US for its practices won't protect you from Chinese malfeasance.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#112

Post by rchaud »

eddieplan9 wrote: post #27
techie128 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol, you really think the American citizens will vote out the government or impeach their president because they act unethically or immorally? I'd love to know what you're smoking.

The question is not if they will , but if they can .

Can they really? The popular vote isn't enough to win a presidential election, you also need electoral college votes which aren't allocated by proportion of population.

At the local and state level, you can strategically implement gerrymandering to create electoral districts that are strongly advantageous to you. How would a political challenger not belonging to the dominant party win there?

Authoritarian regimes frequently win elections with 80-95% of the vote. That tells me that the people "can" vote him out.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#114

Post by jorblumesea »

pishpash wrote: post #38
jorblumesea wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was almost 80 years ago, whereas China is doing this today. Past US actions don't somehow invalidate current complaints about massive human rights violations by the CCP. This is purely whataboutism.

I have no interest in pointing out current US atrocities around the world; there are many. Does any US action past or present invalidate anything? No. But it does make your words overall worthless and hypocritical. As they say, clean your own house first. It's energy better spent.

No.

We should be critical of human rights violations of every country, at every point in time. Past US violations are not some kind of excuse to allow China to put millions of people in concentration camps. This is a fallacious argument, the tu quoque logical fallacy.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#115

Post by jorblumesea »

OG_BME wrote: post #94

Some of these comments are... weird. Multiple accounts with broken English defending China and bringing up African Americans (somewhat irrelevantly) in every argument. I'll leave the speculation as an exercise for the reader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#116

Post by EpicEng »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #24
CathayRe wrote: post #12

Nice, Huawei Finally pointed this out, so the next step is hopefully somebody pointing out the difference. There will never be a Snowden in China. You can guarantee their life, or their love one's life will be held hostage. So not only does the "West" ( So to speak ) has a system in place protecting these people, they also have a system to vote them out and elect a new form of government should the ultimate worst com…

I disagree. The reason there will be no Snowden in China is primarily that China doesn't hide its spying, and secondarily becaue China does not maintain the pretense of moral superiority on international scale. Snowden-type leak from China would not change the way Chinese citizens perceive their government, and nobody else would care, much less exert outside pressure to change things. Leaks and whistleblowers will ha…

>China doesn't hide its spying,

Because they don't have to, because they cannot be democratically removed from power and their people accept a high level of human rights abuses as status quo. US citizens do not.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#117

Post by throw2016 »

The crime is the action, not who is doing it. Why should US firms be allowed to not only get away but seek to normalize and profit from global surveillance while Huawei is penalized for FUD? What sort of global system is this?

This just won't fly for anyone concerned with the ethical issues. The point is not that Huawei should get away with anything but no one should. This not only makes a mockery of concern with surveillance but also exposes globalization and free markets as self serving political tools.

Huawei is a perfect example of how ethical issues are hijacked by vested interests with zero interest in the ethics to encourage an empty culture of jingoistic finger pointing that serve to distract and deny while advancing their own financial interests at the cost of everyone else.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#118

Post by Fins »

rchaud wrote: post #104
hatsunearu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. Obviously in a perfect world none of the "bad" things happen, but I'd rather take the US government spying on me than the Chinese government spy on me.

> I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. But it's a point that will continue to be made as long as the US diplomats continue to use Cold War cliches to describe the "enemy" while back-patting the US as a global sentinel for liberal values and human rights. The USSR couldn't have dreamed of the kind of mass surveillance apparatus the US has.

Nah, USSR would just lock people up even without any proof of anything. But they certainly would've dreamed of it.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#119

Post by pjc50 »

jorblumesea wrote: post #113
pjc50 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many separated Latino children are in indefinite detention these days?

[flagged]

No, it makes neither side OK. And failing to do anything about it in the side under democratic control makes it harder to do elsewhere.

Re: Huawei Trolls U.S. on Spy Claims with a Jab at Snowden

#120

Post by dijit »

everdrive wrote: post #111
dijit wrote: post #9

I feel like this is fair. People like to paint enemies of the east while essentially letting the west get away with much more heinous stuff. The difference of course is that we implicitly trust US tech companies, of course we do, nobody else has such a monopoly on CPUs and Operating System production. Not to mention web browsers and all kinds of technology. Avoiding the USA in your tech stack is quite literally impos…

If we accept this moral equivalency, it still doesn't make support or acceptance of Huawei OK. This line of argument is all about moral blame, and not related to practical outcome. Correctly morally blaming the US for its practices won't protect you from Chinese malfeasance.

I agree. I said it was fair, I didn’t say it was acceptable.
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