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Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

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Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#111

Post by dsfyu404ed »

noir_lord wrote: post #94
klmr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note, the source here might be a biased here That’s putting it mildly: I’m entirely aware that there’s a concerted campaign in the UK to smear Corbyn by fabricating a story from out-of-context quotes and, despite not being a fan of Corbyn, I’m entirely on board with the idea that he’s being unjustly targeted and probably isn’t actually antisemitic. But so far there’s no evidence that Israel is behind this effort. A…

One of the things that annoys me about this debate is that anti-semetic !== Anti Israel I've no issue with the Jews (I don't actually know any) but specific things the Israeli government does sure I do. Of course it's useful for people to conflate the two as they do with Corbyn or anyone who condemns Israel. Frankly I've no dog in the fight, I think Israel and the Palestinian's are frequently in the wrong. It's quite…

>One of the things that annoys me about this debate is that anti-semetic !== Anti Israel

That's the point. People on the pro-Israel side of things know that being antisemitic is very much not acceptable for anyone in a position of power in the 1st world to be in this day any age so they try their hardest to conflate the two.

It's much more obvious when the conflation is much more of a stretch, e.g. "how dare you not support gun control, don't you care about children" or "how dare you not support corporate tax cuts, are you some sort of communist." Conflating Israel as a nation with all Jewish people is subtle enough that you can get away with it most of the time.

It's basically a reverse straw-man where you conflate your position with something that nobody can tear down in a sufficiently politically correct manner (like a race of people) or the opposing position with something so politically incorrect that nobody will stand behind it.

If you're looking for it you'll see this behavior a lot on HN though people are typically slightly more tactful about it.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#112

Post by arminiusreturns »

aedron wrote: post #74

'By Way of Deception', written years ago by a former high ranking Mossad officer, made it seem like American government institutions in NY and Washington were crawling with Israeli intelligence, some acknowledged, many not. The book was well sourced and generally considered credible.

I wonder what the media would say of there were as many dual citizenship Russians in Congress as there are dual citizenship Israelis... Yet, not a peep... but you can be sure "ze Russians are coming"!

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#113

Post by lr4444lr »

pault wrote: post #98
noir_lord wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that annoys me about this debate is that anti-semetic !== Anti Israel I've no issue with the Jews (I don't actually know any) but specific things the Israeli government does sure I do. Of course it's useful for people to conflate the two as they do with Corbyn or anyone who condemns Israel. Frankly I've no dog in the fight, I think Israel and the Palestinian's are frequently in the wrong. It's quite…

Is "the jews" considered offensive? If someone were to say "the blacks" I would automatically suspect them of racist tendencies.

What's offensive is that the OP (or generally people like him - not clear of his exact point) thinks he knows Jewish identity well enough that he can divorce it by whatever line he thinks it is (artificially) separate from Israel. Only a tiny minority of very unrepresentative Jews object to the modern state, and they do so only under an even more extreme ideology of what that country should be and who should live in it.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#114

Post by tgragnato »

pliny wrote: post #100
baybal2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find odd is that their staffers may join the company, and leave for the military/intelligence agency again after less than a year, and like that few times over. That's not how anybody's career can work. And nobody in his sane mind will accept severe demotion on rejoining the service, nor will choose a very different branch of service. A diplomatic security corps officer, will not be making a good sailor. Those…

>What I find odd is that their staffers may join the company, and leave for the military/intelligence agency again after less than a year What is the source for this?

>> What I find odd is that their staffers may join the company, and leave for the military/intelligence agency again after less than a year

> What is the source for this?

NSO Group Technologies founders are Unit 8200 alumni (Niv Carmi, Omri Lavie, Shalev Hulio). While the "revolving door" between NSO and 8200 is pretty well understood and undisputed in many security circles, I don't have any other public reference. But I'd like to point something: confusing 8200 veterans and common veterans is extremely naive. I don't think anything going on inside NSO is unknown to the government/intelligence (even if they're supposedly separate entities).

I gave a tip in the previous HN discussion (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19006477), and now a broader pattern has been publicly exposed. How many other "phishing expeditions" can you discover by going to look for websites that follow the same pattern (Namecheap, Wix, etc)?

Christiana Markou -> www.eneinvestments.com , Alaa Mahajna -> www.lyndonpartners.com , Masri Mazen -> www.apoiconsulting.com , John Scott-Railton -> www.cpw-consulting.com

Following the crumbs would give more reasons to think that distinguishing whether these are orchestrated by NSO or Israel is pointless.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#115

Post by gbrown »

lr4444lr wrote: post #113
pault wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "the jews" considered offensive? If someone were to say "the blacks" I would automatically suspect them of racist tendencies.

What's offensive is that the OP (or generally people like him - not clear of his exact point) thinks he knows Jewish identity well enough that he can divorce it by whatever line he thinks it is (artificially) separate from Israel. Only a tiny minority of very unrepresentative Jews object to the modern state, and they do so only under an even more extreme ideology of what that country should be and who should live in…

> a tiny minority of very unrepresentative Jews object to the modern state

[Citation Needed]

I think your comment is far more offensive than someone claiming they take issue with the actions of a nation state.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#116

Post by justtopost »

walrus01 wrote: post #12
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #2

> When mysterious operatives lured two cybersecurity researchers to meetings at luxury hotels over the past two months How does one go about luring cybersecurity reaserchers? Surely a cybersecurity researcher is not you’re average mark? Luring is generally something an adversary does to an one who is unsuspecting. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the us of the word is dishonest, but it sure seems to be leaning toward h…

> How does one go about luring cybersecurity reaserchers? Given the overwhelmingly male demographic of people who describe themselves as "cybersecurity researchers", probably with $2000 escorts and hotel rooms rigged with cameras. It's not rocket science, literally one of the oldest espionage compromat tricks in the book.

No need to count out the females of SV being lured by that scenario either. Lets not be sexist, when both sexes sex.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#117

Post by crockstar »

tuesdayrain wrote: post #106
noir_lord wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea, the Jewish people, judaists insert whatever works for you.

I've noticed people can be offended when you refer to them by their adjectives. E.g. "blacks" instead of "black people", "autists" vs "autistic people".

My understanding is that people object to this as it is a means of defining them rather than describing them. In fact, I know people who would be insulted with the use of "autistic people" as opposed to "people with autism"

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#118

Post by wgerard »

tuesdayrain wrote: post #106
noir_lord wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea, the Jewish people, judaists insert whatever works for you.

I've noticed people can be offended when you refer to them by their adjectives. E.g. "blacks" instead of "black people", "autists" vs "autistic people".

One term encourages the idea that they're people first-and-foremost, with the adjective used to describe a particular subset of people.

The other removes the emphasis on them being people and is pretty depersonalizing.

As you can imagine, it's much worse when it's a historically marginalized group--as an example, fewer people will care if you say "blondes" vs. "blonde-haired people".

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#119

Post by wycy »

bouncycastle wrote: post #66

Excuse me, but isn't "undercover" redundant in "undercover spy"?.. I mean, all spies work undercover :-)

There are spies with official cover and non-official cover[0]--the latter of which is normally to what "undercover spy" refers.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-official_cover

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