I would upvote this 1000 times if I could.
When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
111–120 of 193 posts
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
edit: s/mwbs/bs/g; per comment below Well, X-rays cause cancer. BS uses X-rays So it is a cancer risk. And it is a little more founded than someone randomly saying' this causes cancer'. In terms of risk... This says dental x-rays are about 2-3 mrem: http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/dental.htm This says BS is about .006-.009 mrem: http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/backscatter.htm Keep in mind that under cer…
(This doesn't take into account other real issues, like 'what if the machine breaks down and we start blasting people with focused beams of radiation'... What if my flashlight breaks down and I start blasting people with focused beams of laser light? What if my cell phone breaks down and the microwaves melt the brains of everyone within 6 feet of me? I don't know a great deal about the engineering of MWBS, but I see…
Medical radiation machines have malfunctioned and killed people before: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/unforgivable_medic...
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#113I opted out during my last flight. After everything I had read, I decided I needed to experience it first hand. I was expecting a huge scene, with the TSA agent screaming, "OPT OUT! We've got an opt out here!", and then being manhandled, groped, and basically demeaned in front of other passengers. After removing my shoes (the one part of airport security theatre I absolutely hate) and placing my belongings in those g…
Thanks for posting this. Very insightful.
The thing I keep in mind is while I might not have a problem with this kind of pat-down I doubt many women are going to be ok with it.
The pat-down itself isn't even the real problem here or even the potential to abuse it (which is bad enough); almost certainly if you are an attractive women this is at the minimum going to be an embarrassing scene. I told my gf about this and she was shocked; she happens to be a very attractive asian women who normally draws a lot of unnecessary attention just out shopping/doing whatever.
So does she choose a private pat-down and who knows what kind of risks that brings? Or does she do it publicly so everyone can watch her getting groped? Sure as a guy I think no big deal, but for women this really is a big deal.
Anyway, what a mess and worst of all it fixes nothing.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, not just the President but also any Congressperson/Senator that is interviewed for the rest of the year on any program. Which one do you want your mother/children experiencing, naked picture radiation, deep groping, or would you instead choose the $10,000 fine for leaving (and possibly being put on the no-fly list forever)?
Maybe I'm just cynical but I'd imagine the answer would be something like, "The scanner. The devices are safe and we feel their use is important for ensuring the safety of US citizens. Next question?"
Yeah, you can give any answer when you know you'll never need to actually be put through any of the options.
If everyone who flies, and I do mean everyone (regardless of whether you'll be boarding a personal plane), had to go through this every time, we'd see this go away.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So would the President choose the radiation naked picture method or the deep groping method for his daughters? I'd seriously like that question asked at some point by the press. No one in the press has the guts to ask him this. But man, I'd love to see that too.
To be fair, not just the President but also any Congressperson/Senator that is interviewed for the rest of the year on any program. Which one do you want your mother/children experiencing, naked picture radiation, deep groping, or would you instead choose the $10,000 fine for leaving (and possibly being put on the no-fly list forever)?
I had no idea what $10k fine you were talking about, but did some searching and found this (for anyone else who doesn't keep up on all the latest TSA news).
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/14/tsa-ejects-oc...
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#116How dumb are people to not realize it's radiation one way or another? Do they think it's "magic" they can see through your clothes? How can there be a class action lawsuit against printer ink, but not against radiating you for no reason with devices that have no track record? Where are these devices for entering Congress or the Whitehouse if they are so safe? So would the President choose the radiation naked picture…
That picture is the millimeter wave scanner, which doesn't use radiation. The backscatter scanners are the xray type and are the majority of the scanners in airports.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
(This doesn't take into account other real issues, like 'what if the machine breaks down and we start blasting people with focused beams of radiation'... What if my flashlight breaks down and I start blasting people with focused beams of laser light? What if my cell phone breaks down and the microwaves melt the brains of everyone within 6 feet of me? I don't know a great deal about the engineering of MWBS, but I see…
It is not a theoretical concern: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
Therac was designed to send a concentrated beam of radiation into somebody. That was the machine's purpose.
Are the scanners designed or even capable of doing the same?
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
(This doesn't take into account other real issues, like 'what if the machine breaks down and we start blasting people with focused beams of radiation'... What if my flashlight breaks down and I start blasting people with focused beams of laser light? What if my cell phone breaks down and the microwaves melt the brains of everyone within 6 feet of me? I don't know a great deal about the engineering of MWBS, but I see…
Medical radiation machines have malfunctioned and killed people before: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/01/unforgivable_medic...
A laser scalpel (designed to deliver large radiation doses) can also kill someone if used improperly. Does this mean I should be afraid of a malfunctioning flashlight burning my head off?
Medical radiation machines deliver 45-80 Gy. The backscattered x-ray machine delivers 1e-7 Gy, if I've got my math right. That's roughly the difference between a punch and a nuclear bomb.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#119"They’re expendable workers. I own this place. I’m the boss. They work for me. The only reason I don’t fire them is that they’re cheaper than robots. Etc." I hate people like that. Why must he build himself up by putting down others? Regardless of what you think of the TSA's procedures, the people in the airport don't make the law. They're just decent people trying to make a living. If you have to insult them, albeit…
It's really easy to Godwin a response to this, but I'll opt out and just ask: How decent are these people if they signed up for jobs to look at naked pictures and grope strangers? I'm all for being respectful as a tactic, but it's not as if they're doing anything to deserve respect.
When it comes to jobs of enforcement, you have to divorce the intent from the actions. It's similar to a cop. Lots of cops get into that career because they want to uphold the law and that's how you do it. They don't get to choose what laws they uphold. Cops routinely are forced to do things that go against their own personal politics, because you couldn't have a police force where every individual cop only enforced the laws as they saw fit.
It's not bad to want to uphold travel safety or to take a job doing so. You might disagree with whether or not these scanners accomplish that, or if they do, if it's worth the tradeoff, and so might the TSA agent. That doesn't make the TSA agent less deserving of respect as a person.
Re: When we got to the scanner, I opted out. Then they opted out.
#120I opted out during my last flight. After everything I had read, I decided I needed to experience it first hand. I was expecting a huge scene, with the TSA agent screaming, "OPT OUT! We've got an opt out here!", and then being manhandled, groped, and basically demeaned in front of other passengers. After removing my shoes (the one part of airport security theatre I absolutely hate) and placing my belongings in those g…
Nice to get a detailed user report. One question--what clubs do you go to, to get extreme gropings?
It's common in standing-room-only punk and rock shows. When the music starts, people push forward, so the crowd compresses shockingly tight. There is so much pressure that your arms are pinned to the person next to you, unless you raised them when the music started. Combine that with the oddball-variety of people who attend these shows, and you get conversations like the following:
Ben: Brian, are you touching my ass?
Brian: No.
Ben: I was afraid of that.