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Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

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111–120 of 258 posts

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#111
post #60

Everyone here is talking about their skillset, and I'm going to take another direction: appearance and interpersonal skills. There is ageism, yes, but I think a deeper problem is reaction to peoples appearance. If you are late twenties concerned about age, then hide it, starting now. * Always wear sunscreen when you are outside, regardless of race. It prevents skin aging, and you'll still tan and get Vitamin D regard…

I agree with all this except the sunscreen part. I was under the impression that sunscreen can actually increase the chance of cancer. Furthermore, sunscreen does block vitamin-D. But, you don't need much (sunblock free) sun exposure to max out your vitamin-D absorption (just 12 minutes a day will do it).

On a side note, I do intermittent fasting and caloric restriction to hopefully reduce my rate of aging.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#112
To the folks posting comments suggesting they are 50+ and still going strong or started coding when they were children: kudos to you. However, I think you represent the minority.

Development shouldn't be a 'King of the Mountain' contest, but it is. Here's my story: I have commercial experience in C, Java, Visual Basic, MUMPS/M/Cache and Node.js. I've worked in Healthcare ( A/R, Laboratory reporting & instrument data acquisition ), Integration Space (e.g. webMethods), US defense space. I've worked in a 'tools' team delivering components used by application development teams.

On the side, I've written an open source project on Github, I've attended many meetups in recent years - and user group meetings before the Internet was a thing.

My point, is that I am very experienced. I've never had a bad review, I've worked for at least 15 different managers, I've worked at a few companies multiple times.

Yet, I still struggle daily to hang on to the thing I love which is to write code. From my perspective, this is a real problem. It seems impossible to simply be a developer for your career because the pressure from the industry is to cut developer labor costs.

Btw, I am currently an Senior Architect. I've held many titles since 1988 including Princial Architect and Junior Programmer Trainee. ( I got into software after starting off as a lab technician in healthcare. )

The only people I know who are my age are those folks who truly are kings of their mountain. This is not what I envisioned. I helped raise a large family ( 5 children ), but I am constantly working in my head - regardless of whether I am at the keyboard or not.)

This is not what I expected; however, I've been paid very well, so I've been lucky - or my family has.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#113
To have longevity in a technical discipline you need to do one of two things: 1) choose a field that changes very slowly, or not at all, and become an expert in it; or 2) work in a quick changing field, but be prepared to learn quickly and compete with younger workers (means no wage premium just for seniority)

When it comes to 1), the best fields are ones where either hardware or regulatory issues slow evolution. Examples: embedded systems programming, working on highly regulated systems for the aviation, medical, or automobile industry.

Finally, and its not really in my list, but you could always create your own product or service. That's a sure way to protect your income against age prejudice. Nobody cares what age the developer of their software is ... they just want to know it works.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#114
post #112

To the folks posting comments suggesting they are 50+ and still going strong or started coding when they were children: kudos to you. However, I think you represent the minority. Development shouldn't be a 'King of the Mountain' contest, but it is. Here's my story: I have commercial experience in C, Java, Visual Basic, MUMPS/M/Cache and Node.js. I've worked in Healthcare ( A/R, Laboratory reporting & instrument data…

Sorry, I forgot to say I'm 54.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#115
post #60

Everyone here is talking about their skillset, and I'm going to take another direction: appearance and interpersonal skills. There is ageism, yes, but I think a deeper problem is reaction to peoples appearance. If you are late twenties concerned about age, then hide it, starting now. * Always wear sunscreen when you are outside, regardless of race. It prevents skin aging, and you'll still tan and get Vitamin D regard…

> Practice getting people talking about themselves. It's the best way to get people to think that you are interesting. Could you elaborate why why that is the case?

If you haven't read it, pick up "How to Win Friends and Influence People" - it's the best book on interpersonal skills you're likely to find. One of the key points in there is that people love to talk about themselves. If you want to impress someone you've just met, start asking them questions about themselves, and be genuinely interested in what they have to say. When you part ways, that person is likely going to think you're a great conversationalist, even if you hardly said a word about yourself.

In other words, you're an interesting person if you're interested in them.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think that in 10 years, people will look back on kubernetes and shake their heads.

Comments like these are so infuriating! You get to shit on a huge community with zero reasoning, and zero consequences for being wrong. Your negativity is only rewarded if somehow you're right (which is more a result of broken clock syndrome than anything else), so you and people like you are incentivized to keep sniping from afar.

Is there not some part of you deep down that looks back at the last decade of technology and feels "well I'm glad we're not doing things that way anymore, it was totally wrong for our situation"?

It just seems that that is constantly the case. We might well be another 3 or 4 decades away from software development technology hitting real maturity in terms of really streamlined tooling, frameworks, languages that help us work at the right level of abstraction at the fastest speed.

I don't think it's an entirely unwarranted comment. I think it's wise to constantly be thinking about and looking for "what awfulness are we accepting as a trade-off to get the great benefits of this particular way of configuring our process?"

By all means get into the hype, dive in, be excited. But don't forget to shit on yourself because you know the shit is coming at some point. If not in 5 years then in 10. It'll help you see it coming.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#117
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm contracting, so the last time I aced a discussion about a job was about 5 hours ago.

Case closed :)

Thanks -- actually, interviewing is also a skill that is about as important as your tech background. I'm lucky to be gifted in the way I can convey my passion(s) (despite english not being my native language)

-- but people who don't will always struggle --

-- MORE so as they get older! --

So I know it sounds silly, but acting classes, talking in front of the mirror or whatever else might help a lot more than staring at a screen for a few days...

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#118
I'm in my mid-50s and it has not caused a career problem for me. I don't do anything special about my age.

What I do is what I've done from the very start of my career over 30 years ago: I am constantly learning and keeping my skills current. That's not something I do to ensure employability, it's because I am genuinely into this stuff. I produce software for a living, and I also produce software as one of my hobbies. There's always something new and fascinating to tackle, whether it's in the workplace or not.

My professional focus has become networking and security, but my skillset is far broader than that, so I don't call myself a "specialist" at all. I'm just an experienced engineer. I don't know how to answer the tech stack question, because I use a very wide variety of tech stacks, operating systems, and platforms both in the workplace and at home.

Have I been discriminated against because of age? I honestly don't know, but I have no problem getting excellent jobs, so if it's happened, it doesn't matter.

I determine if a company is right for me in two steps --- first, before I decide to apply, I research the company to learn its history, what prior employees think of it, what technologies it uses, etc. If I feel good about or am still interested in the company after that, I'll apply.

When I interview, I don't look at it as them interviewing me. It's exactly the other way around -- I'm interviewing them. I pay close attention to what they say (not their sales pitch, but what sorts of questions they ask), the physical environment, and I pay attention to all the employees that I can spot who aren't on the team that is interviewing me. Do they look happy, angry, etc? My experience is that whatever they're feeling is likely to be what I'll be feeling if I take the job.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just tell you now I've got a T-shirt with "Copland Driver Kitchen" :-)

You have me beat, but I have a coworker who used paper tape. That is, computer data storage was via holes punched in a long strip of paper. Another coworker wrote Alternate Reality, which was a game for the Atari 800XL 8-bit home computer. Finding these experienced people isn't easy. Many don't want to move. You can't just drop by a college and grab them in bulk. We'd hire more (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…

Im 50, learned assembly on the Atari 800XL computer. I still use the technics and algorithms i learned there.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#120
There are myriad ways to pull this off but more than a few them require luck of some kind. A particular technology, a particular company even a particular manager.

However a recent study shows that, in the US at least, 55% of all workers are laid off before they reach their "natural retirement age". So you need to plan ahead.

Over the past twenty years the demand for technical talent has changed a lot. In particular, the demand has increased a lot at small and medium sized companies due to their use of the internet.

So a useful outline of a career now is, start at a large company and learn the ropes, then move away from niche technologies to more generally in demand technologies like LAMP for example. By the time you hit 35 years old you should be starting to angle for more senior jobs at smaller companies.

Software development now for smaller firms is starting to look more like law and accounting practices. Your experience there is now an advantage since you will understand more of the complete corporate needs in addtion to your tech chops. Whereas if you stay and a larger company (cough IBM) you're now just too expensive for you niche skill set.

(*source - still doing lamp stack dev at over 60)

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