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Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

nytimes.com

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Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#111

Post by fdggdfsvscvsd »

DanBC wrote: post #78
fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #73

"children and teenagers struggling to get to grips with how they fit into the increasingly complex modern world" Isn't that basically the job of children, and has always been? Not to denounce the efforts to improve their mental health. Just saying some struggle seems normal and unavoidable, probably even necessary.

Mindfullness doesn't aim to eliminate struggle. Children still have to sit exams; they still have chances to enter competition. And mindfulness won't, for example, remove a child from poverty. What it might do is stop children killing themselves as a result of adversity. Rates of death by suicide in the UK have been declining recently, but not for young people. We also know that rates of self-harm for young people ar…

I must admit, I don't see how positive thinking could possibly help?

Assuming suicides are usually a result of violence (bullying by peers, pressure by parents and teachers...). Wouldn't it be better to show practical ways out of it? Saying "I'm so great and thankful" while bullies pounce on you might feel rather hollow quickly?

Don't get me wrong, this seems to be set up as an experiment, which seems like a good thing. Maybe they'll find it will actually help.

Your argument sounds like "something has to be done, because..." - but something is not always the right thing.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#112

Post by fdggdfsvscvsd »

rsynnott wrote: post #84
fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But "practicing mindfulness" is suggesting the cure is easy (pretty sure the science is shaky, at least positive thinking isn't proven to work?). Actually working on issues might work better, and might also not be easy.

There's a good bit of evidence that MBSR works.

Replicated, too?

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#113

Post by geggam »

spuz wrote: post #102
geggam wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teaching someone to act socially mature without understanding why is like teaching someone to pass a test without understanding the material. Seems like schools are becoming experts at creating fakes.

I don't know where you get this idea from? Where does it say that schools are teaching kids to act socially mature without understanding why? Mindfulness if taught well should provide the opposite. It gives you a framework to understand your thoughts and emotions and act in a more rational, thoughtful way. It's not a way of abdicating responsibility - just the opposite.

Maturation is a process one learns by experience. Faking the result skips the reasons. Granted it makes people more palatable to be around but the lessons why are lost.

Some things can only be learned by experience.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#114

Post by kitd »

mapcars wrote: post #88
kitd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you RTFA before facepalming. It is as much about being literate in the issues as it is about solving them.

By being literate I will only learn from other people's experience. But I can only truly rely on my own experience.

That's so mixed up, I'm not sure where to start.

Should we learn Maths or English from experience? Without the literacy, we don't have the tools and terms to understand our experience. The early years are exactly the time to introduce them, since that is where our experiences have the most profound and long-lasting effect.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#115

Post by jdietrich »

fooblat wrote: post #31

I really struggle with the term "mindfulness" as it seems it can mean anything and everything, depending on who you ask. We had some Mindfulness workshops at a previous employer and it was so full of woo and magical thinking that it really turned me off and felt like a huge waste of time. My current company also recently introduced a Mindfulness workshop only this time it was really a basic meditation workshop which…

You might want to peruse some of the research on Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy; there's reasonably good evidence that it outperforms conventional CBT for patients with chronic or recurrent depression or chronic pain. There are also some interesting neuroimaging studies that suggest that regular meditators have increased activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and reduced activity in the amygdala, which are both associated with psychological wellbeing.

Mindfulness is simply the practice of awareness, which encompasses a wide range of activities. The classic example is awareness of the breath - noticing the rhythm of inhalation and exhalation, noticing the sensation of air passing through your trachea, noticing when your attention wanders away from your breath and noticing how your focus returns to it. A technique often used with pain and anxiety patients is body-scan mindfulness - carefully notice the sensations in the soles of the feet, then the ankles, then the calves etc. You might notice and categorise your subjective experience in real time - this is a thought, this is a memory, this is a physical sensation.

Mindfulness has become a bit of a fad and is often poorly taught by inexperienced bandwagon-jumpers, which is unfortunate for a practice that pre-dates Christianity by several hundred years. If it does interest you, I'd suggest just trying it out, because it's sort of impossible to meaningfully communicate the subjective experience of mindfulness. Read Mindfulness for Beginners by John Kabat-Zinn or Mindfulness: A Practical Guide by Mark Williams, set aside fifteen minutes a day to practice and stick with it for a month.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#116

Post by weavie »

sridca wrote: post #96
weavie wrote: post #6

My daughters homework for each day this week is : 1. Talk about your feelings. 2. Do something you are good at. 3. Keep yourself hydrated. 4. Eat well. 5. Keep active in mind and body. 6. Take a break. 7. Stay connected to those you care about. 8. Ask for help. 9. Be proud of your very being. 10. Actively care for others. She has a chart she needs to tick once she has achieved each item. I get that they are all good…

How do they teach your daughter to translate these principles to practical actions? For example how does your daugher understand "Eat well" to mean in terms of actual food she happens to crave (cookies, ice cream, plants, meat, etc.)? If they are going EAT-Lancet style on her you should probably be concerned.

I will be asking her what they are teaching her over the week.

I am struggling to find any coherent solid information about what the EAT-Lancet diet actually is, or why it is bad. It looks like a load of politically motivated mumbo jumbo! Would you be able to summarise?

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#117

Post by sridca »

weavie wrote: post #116
sridca wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they teach your daughter to translate these principles to practical actions? For example how does your daugher understand "Eat well" to mean in terms of actual food she happens to crave (cookies, ice cream, plants, meat, etc.)? If they are going EAT-Lancet style on her you should probably be concerned.

I will be asking her what they are teaching her over the week. I am struggling to find any coherent solid information about what the EAT-Lancet diet actually is, or why it is bad. It looks like a load of politically motivated mumbo jumbo! Would you be able to summarise?

It is a vegan-inspired/ anti-meat diet (similar to Canada's New Food Guide), backed by the processed food industry, but with plenty of issues which are neatly summarized by Georgia Ede here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/20190...

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#118

Post by jdietrich »

fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #76
DanBC wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental ill health is a leading cause of death worldwide. It leads to more years lost to disabiity than anything else. It's a significant cause of absence from work. If the cure was so fucking simple don't you think people would have tried it? The worst thing about HN is people who do not know what they're talking about chipping in with their facile half-witted suggestions for what they reckon.

But "practicing mindfulness" is suggesting the cure is easy (pretty sure the science is shaky, at least positive thinking isn't proven to work?). Actually working on issues might work better, and might also not be easy.

>But "practicing mindfulness" is suggesting the cure is easy

Not really, no. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is a fairly popular psychotherapeutic approach that makes use of mindfulness. The objective of ACT is to move patients towards valued behaviour and a meaningful life. In order to achieve that, it uses mindfulness practice to facilitate acceptance of distressing internal experiences and re-orient the patient towards the present moment.

It's very easy to say "just do stuff that matters to you", but there are all sorts of internal obstacles to that. Some people are very anxious and find it more comfortable to avoid new experiences, even if those experiences might ultimately be rewarding. Some people are lacking in confidence and assume that they'll fail at anything they try. Some people are so overwhelmed by emotional pain that they struggle to just get out of bed in the morning. Some people are stuck in self-destructive habits that temporarily soothe their distress but worsen the circumstances that contribute to their distress.

Mindfulness doesn't fix a crappy life, but it's a useful tool. If you can observe your anxious thoughts as just thoughts passing through your mind, you might give them a bit less credence. If you can learn to sit with your distress and tolerate it, you might be a bit less likely to have that drink or distract yourself with a video game or cut your wrists. If you can learn to focus more on the present moment, you might worry a bit less about whether you'll succeed or fail and take a bit more pleasure in the experience of trying.

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#119

Post by SomethingOrNot »

austincheney wrote: post #4
mapcars wrote: post #2

>“Children will start to be introduced gradually to issues around mental health, well-being and happiness right from the start of primary school,” he added. Why wouldn't adults just solve their mental problems instead of introducing them to children? Children have no problems with happiness or well-being. It's us who should learn from them. big facepalm

> Why wouldn't adults just solve their mental problems instead of introducing them to children? Because people live in an artificial world. In the absence of real problems everything is emotionally traumatic, first world problems. As I sit next to a war on a military deployment I await people to prove me right with the sadness of their downvotes.

You’re like the main character in Hurt Locker at the end of the movie. He has come home from deployment and is standing in a supermarket. The mundane, everyday reality of First World civilian life seems meaningless in contrast.

So he goes back for another deployment. Another deployment in a pointless and meaningless war, yet another racket that has everything to do with the interests of the powerful and nothing to do with sentimental crap like serving your country. But he feels that it is meaningful.

“War is a racket”

Re: Schools in England Introduce a New Subject: Mindfulness

#120

Post by weavie »

sridca wrote: post #117
weavie wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will be asking her what they are teaching her over the week. I am struggling to find any coherent solid information about what the EAT-Lancet diet actually is, or why it is bad. It looks like a load of politically motivated mumbo jumbo! Would you be able to summarise?

It is a vegan-inspired/ anti-meat diet (similar to Canada's New Food Guide), backed by the processed food industry, but with plenty of issues which are neatly summarized by Georgia Ede here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/20190...

Thanks. I would tweak that diet slightly. Drop the whole grains by an order of magnitude, up the vegetables as much as possible, and increase the lard/tallow to make up the rest. I do agree that we probably eat more meat that we should, but it does look like they are swinging the other way here. How much is 15 calories of beef? About a spooful?
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