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One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

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Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#111

Post by rixrax »

oh_sigh wrote: post #75
apo wrote: post #62

Few people taking theses tests understand or care about the privacy-destroying effect of what they're doing to themselves and their families. For example, this is from the AncestryDNA (different company) terms of service: By submitting User Provided Content to AncestryDNA, you grant AncestryDNA and the Ancestry Group Companies a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide, sublicensable, transferable license to host, transfer…

Personally, I'm okay if my DNA sample helps catch a cousin, brother, or other family member that is a murderer/rapist/etc. Less okay with them using my sample for promotional material, but I've never really seen that done except for people who clearly consent(ie by starring in a commercial or photo shoot for the company).

Until another regime shows up that decides to neuter or eradicate people with a specific trait.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#112

Post by jhayward »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #84
telchar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Not that I plan on being involved in any such crimes (necessary disclaimer?) but a family member of mine submitted their DNA to one of these services. Now it's irrelevant whether I submit mine or not because it's as good as in there anyway. Feels real good having your rights signed away by someone else...

What rights? Surely if you have rights to your DNA, then your family member has rights to their DNA. It’s just an unfortunate consequence of how DNA works.

It is probably wrong to think of DNA as personal property. Its public use more closely resembles a commons which is shared by many. We don't give individuals the right to pollute air, for instance, simply because they own property that has air on it.

Likewise we should develop principles for information which when combined with other information can be used to transgress against 3rd parties' enjoyment of their own privacy.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#113

Post by kilo_bravo_3 »

apo wrote: post #62

Few people taking theses tests understand or care about the privacy-destroying effect of what they're doing to themselves and their families. For example, this is from the AncestryDNA (different company) terms of service: By submitting User Provided Content to AncestryDNA, you grant AncestryDNA and the Ancestry Group Companies a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide, sublicensable, transferable license to host, transfer…

>what they're doing to themselves and their families.

This only encourages me. My DNA is on record in various places, and if any relative of mine commits a crime I want the honor of being the person who fucked them and sent them to prison. I would tout the event as an esteemed accomplishment.

Everyone seems to be worried about a sci-fi movie where clones are made from cheek swabs or corporations use DNA to deny certain services.

The former is a pipe dream and the latter is already (partially) illegal in the US via the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008.

If evilmegacorp is going to break the law today then they'll break it tomorrow as well.

Every conceivable scenario in which DNA can be used to harm an individual can be answered with "well a bad actor can already do that today using different methods".

As far as I'm concerned a database of DNA is no different than a database of mugshots or fingerprints.

Mugshots and fingerprints have both led to false-positives being reported.

"Oh but DNA might lead to a false-positive so it must never be used" differs little from "eyewitness testimony, mugshots, fingerprint analysis, confessions, and every single investigative technique ever used in the history of humanity has unassailably led to false positives therefore they should all be banned".

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#114

Post by [deleted] »

TomK32 wrote: post #93
oh_sigh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm okay if my DNA sample helps catch a cousin, brother, or other family member that is a murderer/rapist/etc. Less okay with them using my sample for promotional material, but I've never really seen that done except for people who clearly consent(ie by starring in a commercial or photo shoot for the company).

Until false positives land you in prison. https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convict...

[deleted]

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#115

Post by toomuchtodo »

rixrax wrote: post #111
oh_sigh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm okay if my DNA sample helps catch a cousin, brother, or other family member that is a murderer/rapist/etc. Less okay with them using my sample for promotional material, but I've never really seen that done except for people who clearly consent(ie by starring in a commercial or photo shoot for the company).

Until another regime shows up that decides to neuter or eradicate people with a specific trait.

You can do this already with a gene drive, no need to identify everyone with the trait.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#116

Post by dfxm12 »

apo wrote: post #62

Few people taking theses tests understand or care about the privacy-destroying effect of what they're doing to themselves and their families. For example, this is from the AncestryDNA (different company) terms of service: By submitting User Provided Content to AncestryDNA, you grant AncestryDNA and the Ancestry Group Companies a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide, sublicensable, transferable license to host, transfer…

I wonder if there's an alternate universe where people are PAID to use this service. Where the company is upfront about buying your data from you because they intend on making a ton of money from it later on, maybe for nefarious means, maybe to try and cure some disease, I don't know if that part of it matters.

Anyway, I wonder if people would be skeptical of the company's motives to the point where they don't want to give up their data or if they'd still just really want that cool DNA sequence art and to have a laugh about having 7% unexpected DNA.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#117

Post by LinuxBender »

colordrops wrote: post #92
LinuxBender wrote: post #13

The term "At Home" is very disingenuous. Spitting in a tube at home and then mailing your DNA to a lab is not At Home. A proper at-home test would be a kit that allows you to decode your DNA at home without a single strand DNA or byte of data landing on a system that does not belong to you.

How long until this is feasible? I've heard of DNA sequencing machines for $2k, but are not easy or reliable.

I would gladly pay $2k to keep my data at home. To me, that is much cheaper than what it would cost to remove genetic data from multiple corporations and governments, if that is even feasible.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#118

Post by mikeash »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #113
apo wrote: post #62

Few people taking theses tests understand or care about the privacy-destroying effect of what they're doing to themselves and their families. For example, this is from the AncestryDNA (different company) terms of service: By submitting User Provided Content to AncestryDNA, you grant AncestryDNA and the Ancestry Group Companies a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide, sublicensable, transferable license to host, transfer…

>what they're doing to themselves and their families. This only encourages me. My DNA is on record in various places, and if any relative of mine commits a crime I want the honor of being the person who fucked them and sent them to prison. I would tout the event as an esteemed accomplishment. Everyone seems to be worried about a sci-fi movie where clones are made from cheek swabs or corporations use DNA to deny certa…

What about accidental harm because your DNA or a relative’s DNA managed to end up at a crime scene, or bad lab procedures produce a false match?

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#119

Post by ptero »

dangrossman wrote: post #74
apo wrote: post #62

Few people taking theses tests understand or care about the privacy-destroying effect of what they're doing to themselves and their families. For example, this is from the AncestryDNA (different company) terms of service: By submitting User Provided Content to AncestryDNA, you grant AncestryDNA and the Ancestry Group Companies a perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide, sublicensable, transferable license to host, transfer…

> and their families That's how a local cold murder case was solved last year. DNA from a 25-year-old crime scene was run against the samples in one of these genealogy databases, and they found a familial match. Police set up a sting to covertly collect DNA from that person's immediate family. They got their DNA match with a brother's water bottle police took from a trash can after he worked a DJ gig at a school. htt…

Total surveillance or global DNA law enforcement database would solve many murders and prevent wrongful convictions. However, it would also give many opportunities for framing convenient suspects and "encouraging" confessions.

I am sure your case was above board but, being born in a totalitarian state, I do not trust law enforcement too much and prefer to err on the side of not solving some crimes. My 2c.

Re: One of the Biggest At-Home DNA Testing Companies Is Working with the FBI

#120

Post by mikeash »

oh_sigh wrote: post #98
TomK32 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until false positives land you in prison. https://gizmodo.com/when-bad-dna-tests-lead-to-false-convict...

That is a general problem with DNA tests, regardless of how samples are collected or potential perpetrators are identified. And it seems like the solution is known and accepted by the courts now, at least in Taiwan: "don't rely on just 17 markers when performing DNA matching tests"

It’s not, however, a problem that can affect you if your DNA isn’t in any database in the first place.
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