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An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

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Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#111
post #102
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm Russian-American. I do not believe Russian "siloviki" are competent enough to pull off anything like what you're implying. Russia spent $100k on FB in total, and they ran ads on controversial issues from both sides, not just Trump (and also organized "resist" protests after Trump won). For comparison, Trump's campaign alone spent $100 _million_. I don't know off the top of my head how much the Clinton…

With FB, propaganda campaigns are cheap, and the advertising, while small scale, doesn't really deal with the entire issue. Modern social tooling allows for broad propaganda with minimal interruption, and companies are happy to allow it because it brings additional advertising dollars. This can be seen in the various groups created by Russia and internal groups during the campaign, and the reach of them, many spreadi…

Sure, but campaigns also engage in "grass roots" propaganda efforts. For instance, _the entirety of US mainstream media_ aired propaganda in favor of Hillary Clinton campaign for a year and a half. Bad news were suppressed, good news were circulated, angles and crops were picked for the rallies to show crowds that weren't really there, Trump (American icon just months before his run) was smeared head to toe, including allegations of rape (which disappeared immediately after the election) and pee-pee "dossier" which turned out to be completely bogus and paid for by the Clinton campaign. That's not even considering the official "social media" propaganda efforts like Shareblue etc, on which millions were spent.

Are you going to tell me that given all these blatant propaganda forces at play Russia still had any effect on the election? I understand this meme looms large in US liberal psyche, but I'm struggling to understand why anyone would rationally believe this.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea how many people are using fbook that do not have the same level of education that you have? and how much time is spent on the fbk by this group of people? How many people are using the fbk that do not have the same familiarity with tech and apps? Same eye sight, finger dexterity? Did you miss the recent stories about the thousands of people bilked out of thousands of dollars via sneaky game app purchases? Ce…

I appreciate the response, but I definitely did not mean to imply that I don't care about other people's problems, but was simply questioning and hoping to get a more exact and maybe quantitative picture of the control these companies have. Perhaps I made a mistake in thinking too much about my own (important) personal decisions and the information and processes I use to make them. With respect to the sneaky game pur…

"letting children make purchases and not reimbursing the parents?" - yes those recent stories. I think it was more than 'letting them make purchases' in what docs came out, it was more 'knowing that they racked up huge bills and often without the knowledge or consent of adults paying the bills' - yet purposely not doing anything about it.. but I did not read the documents only the headlines (admittedly from media companies that have a financial interest in pushing info to be detrimental to time spent getting news there on fbk instead of elsewhere - and just headline scanning - so guilty of that in this instance.

wedding ring sale - yes it led to separation, as it made a backup plan avenue for travel money more of a reality, and the constant reminder seemed to come at a time when reaching out to others for comfort / strength? help in making a decision?

in some ways it could be said that this is great! better to get an ad that is relevant! I know some close, for lack of a better understood description 'mutual feminist friends' - that think this ad is great, and they encouraged leaving, pawning the ring for a good lawyer and travel on the guy's dime - etc.

I know some, for lack of a better term, 'religiously conservative mutual friends" - who would of preferred the "relevant ads" to be marriage counseling services of clergy of local clergy or other similar pro-family things.

This is just one data point, but certainly there are many other, what I would consider abuses of these systems that many of us will never know about.

I for one would like to know more about ads and posts / pages and how they get into the feeds of people with info about alcohol and gambling, even non-money gambling - I think more transparency should be out there for things like this,

and people should be able to publicly report interesting intersections of things like these controversial mind influence images / ads / text - so public debate can occur -

not that I think things should be censored by govs, but certainly people should be more aware of these things, how they could be used to influence less mentally strong people, and people should have options to set settings to avoid some of these things easier.

Its hard to judge these systems when our view of the systems is not very controversial. We have no idea how millions of others see their feeds though.

I applauded fbks decision to make available a list of all ads run by 'whatever group' in light of the election interference investigations. I think we need more tools like this, more transparency.

To see what others or having pushed in front of their eyeballs, it could be shocking.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#113
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

im not justifying it, but its easier to do research at a place like FB than in a university these days

This scares me. It's easier because.. FB has access to millions of people that universities do not? Because fbook can manipulate the minds, emotions and money and politics of highly targeted groups without anyone knowing and the universities could never do that, or would never do that? Is it because fbook has less ethics / laws / rules in place? Because universities need to answer to the community they are in and hav…

> This scares me.

> It's easier because.. FB has access to millions of people that universities do not? Because fbook can manipulate the minds, emotions and money and politics of highly targeted groups without anyone knowing and the universities could never do that, or would never do that?

> Is it because fbook has less ethics / laws / rules in place? Because universities need to answer to the community they are in and have the fear of pitchforks and loss of funding / donors / non-monopoly and need to think of their future and reputation and fbook does not?

> What other reasons could there be?

Money. Lots and lots of money, a scarce resource at most universities.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#114
post #41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook recruiters seem more aggressive lately, perhaps they're starting to actually have trouble attracting top talent?

Perhaps, but if you notice that anecdotally, it may be that you and your network and becoming more experienced and therefore more attractive to Facebook.

Nope, I'm in my late thirties. They're so desperate they're approaching old losers like me.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#115
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make an interesting point about expanding social spheres and influence, nice. However, do you really believe in this concept of a conspiratorial all powerful MSM, that spans the political spectrum and co-ordinates efforts to refute viewpoints they disagree with!? How would such a cabal work? With respect, it sounds a bit infowars/trumpian to me.

>However, do you really believe in this concept of a conspiratorial all powerful MSM, that spans the political spectrum and co-ordinates efforts to refute viewpoints Pretty much all the media we see is controlled by a handful of corporations with varying degrees of connection https://assets.rbl.ms/18622935/980x.jpg It's worse now than the image above because AT&T is purchasing Time Warner With relation to Facebook it…

Hmm, I’d add that being owned by corporations does not always equate to being controlled. Editorial policy will be set by a range of people within these organisations, it can be very complex this chain of command, and the degree of influence that the board will have will vary considerably. I’d also posit that the current negative press around Facebook is of its own making to varying degrees and is the result of various substantive academic studies. The media would be doing us a disservice if they did not report on such things, as they are there to mediate, create awareness to the public against malpractice, accountability etc. This generalisation of ‘MSM’ is reductionist and not an entirely helpful to me. It is also the language that Trump and Alex Jones use and that is something that makes me very wary.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#116
post #34
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple, not everyone share the same concern regarding privacy or those sjw stuff, moreover fb has vast amount of data and also funding, it's very suitable for AI research. Even if he refuse to work with fb, pretty sure a lot of other people will be happy to replace.

By using the term "sjw" I think you significantly diminish the strength of your argument. Why did you choose that word? Is privacy only the concern of social justice warriors? Have you met rural American preppers?

sjw = individual who promotes socially progressive views. socially progressive views could include society attitude towards privacy.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#117
post #116
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By using the term "sjw" I think you significantly diminish the strength of your argument. Why did you choose that word? Is privacy only the concern of social justice warriors? Have you met rural American preppers?

sjw = individual who promotes socially progressive views. socially progressive views could include society attitude towards privacy.

Unfortunately, I don't think your personal definition of the word is in step with common parlance, hence my comment.

>Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism, as well as identity politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior

If you continue to use it to mean, just, "a liberal," people are going to misunderstand your point.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#118
post #111
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With FB, propaganda campaigns are cheap, and the advertising, while small scale, doesn't really deal with the entire issue. Modern social tooling allows for broad propaganda with minimal interruption, and companies are happy to allow it because it brings additional advertising dollars. This can be seen in the various groups created by Russia and internal groups during the campaign, and the reach of them, many spreadi…

Sure, but campaigns also engage in "grass roots" propaganda efforts. For instance, _the entirety of US mainstream media_ aired propaganda in favor of Hillary Clinton campaign for a year and a half. Bad news were suppressed, good news were circulated, angles and crops were picked for the rallies to show crowds that weren't really there, Trump (American icon just months before his run) was smeared head to toe, includin…

Some fair points, though I don’t agree with all of them. What are your thoughts on the DNC hack and subsequent leaks btw? It seems reasonable to credit the disclosure and the way the Trump campaign encouraged it and then capitalised on it as significant. 12 alleged Russian intelligence officials have been charged as part of Mueller’s investigation. Also there was the the Internet Research Agency "troll farm", based in Saint Petersburg and the alleged intrusions into state voter-registration systems. It’s a combination of all of these events that I believe is making it ‘loom large’ and it’s fair to say this transcends the categorisation of ‘meme’ doesn’t it? What do you think?

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#119
post #118
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but campaigns also engage in "grass roots" propaganda efforts. For instance, _the entirety of US mainstream media_ aired propaganda in favor of Hillary Clinton campaign for a year and a half. Bad news were suppressed, good news were circulated, angles and crops were picked for the rallies to show crowds that weren't really there, Trump (American icon just months before his run) was smeared head to toe, includin…

Some fair points, though I don’t agree with all of them. What are your thoughts on the DNC hack and subsequent leaks btw? It seems reasonable to credit the disclosure and the way the Trump campaign encouraged it and then capitalised on it as significant. 12 alleged Russian intelligence officials have been charged as part of Mueller’s investigation. Also there was the the Internet Research Agency "troll farm", based i…

It's not proven (as in, no verifiable evidence was presented) that it was a "hack" rather than a leak in the first place. The emails could have been leaked by an insider. There is some evidence (albeit very weak: file timestamps) that the leaked data was collected locally before it was sent over. I also find it extremely suspicious that the DNC did not allow the FBI to investigate the "hack", but rather chose a private firm to do so, and not just any firm, but Crowdstrike, one of the founders of which, Dmitri Alperovitch, is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, a think tank with openly anti-Russian sentiments that is funded by Ukrainian billionaire Victor Pinchuk, who also happened to donate at least $10 million to the Clinton Foundation.

As to the Mueller investigation: no US person has been charged with _anything whatsoever_ related to collusion thus far. It's all "tax evasion" or process crimes. And he can charge anybody he wants in absentia: it's no secret that governments spy on each other and wage psy-ops campaigns all the time. Heck, Obama even listened in on Merkel's phone calls. Russia is not unique in that regard. In fact it's somewhat unique in how _little_ it interferes in affairs of other countries it has no common borders with.

For a bit of a historical aside to give some color to my perspective, consider that the US helped to re-elect Yeltsin in broad daylight in 1996 (he would have lost to a communist if it wasn't for the US), and was heavily involved in getting Poroshenko elected in Ukraine, also in broad daylight just a few years ago. US influence in Ukraine predates Poroshenko, though: see e.g. Manafort.

So to sum up: I do believe that there was "interference" to the extent proven by concrete evidence such as Facebook spend. I do also believe that such interference is part and parcel of international affairs: the US itself interferes all the time, often in a rather heavy-handed way. I have seen no evidence thus far that the DNC hack was indeed a hack, and not a leak. I believe about 0% of what Crowdstrike says, given its affiliations. I don't really believe in "alleged intrusions in voter registration systems" in absence of independent evidence. As far as I can tell it's fake news.

Re: An Anti-Facebook Manifesto, by an Early Facebook Investor

#120
post #94
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it's not just the left, and there are open indictments against many of the President's team.

The difference between the two is that even the majority of the right dismissed the birthers as idiotic nutjobs, while today the Russian election conspiracies are basically mainstream among the left. It's crazy

The Russian election influencing (not gonna call it hacking because it's not) is not a theory. It's not on the same level as he birther BS which is total fantasy. Of course Russia are trying to influence US elections. Why wouldn't they?
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