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Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

modernhealthcare.com

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Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#111

Post by icebraining »

Sir_Vival wrote: post #107
DanBC wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows that 5 year cancer survival rates in the US are high because the US over-tests so much. This is evidence that harm is being caused. It's not evidence of a good health care system. Why are male incontinence products so prevalent in the states? It's because men are pushed to get PSA and similar screening for prostate cancer. This means the US detects a lot of slow growing cancer that's unlikely to kill s…

It doesn't seem like "over testing" or "harm" if the end result is less people dying. The fact of the matter is that I was able to get an MRI the same day I went to the doctor with an issue twice in the US. One of those times was for severe recurrent headaches. The doctor didn't think it was a tumor (and it wasn't), but he did it to be sure. If I were in Canada chances are I would have waited months for that appointm…

If you were in Canada you could get that MRI privately and still probably save quite a bit of money.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#112

Post by 40four »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #93
40four wrote: post #31

This is very exciting to me. I have been wanting this for a long time, and I belive it's a small step towards improving the healthcare system in the United States. It shouldn't matter these aren't he "real" prices, as so many folks have been quick to point out. But it's the starting point for what ever you think the "real" price is, and it's information that has never been easily accessible to the public until now. A…

> A̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶,̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶e̶r̶t̶a̶i̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶r̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶u̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶.̶ Aside, I hope crossed-out-text generators don't become popular on HN. Maybe a trailing "(not)" will have the same rhetorical effect, though I don't think it added anything to your post. It triggered my browser's "Do you want to translate from Vietnamese?" pop-up.

Oops, yeah I it was a later update... never would have imagined. Good to know, I'll refrain from that in the future.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#113

Post by nonbel »

dragonwriter wrote: post #73
nonbel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got it wrong. The uninsured don't pay these prices, the insurance companies don't pay them either. The people getting screwed are those who pay a deductible/co-pay based on the inflated prices, ie the people who pay for health insurance.

> The people getting screwed are those who pay a deductible/co-pay based on the inflated prices I.e., insured patients getting service from out of network providers; otherwise, if you have insurance, and you are paying deductible or co-insurance, it's based on the insurance negotiated price, not the chargemaster price. OTOH, if you are paying a co-pay, it's a flat fee in your insurance policy and the actual (chargema…

You sure about that? I am fairly certain I've read of cases where it made more sense to pay the uninsured rate (because uninsured rate is even less than the deductible).

Eg, the chargemaster rate could be $10k and you have a $2k deductible but the uninsured rate is $1k:

> "Because of the way insurance contracts are typically structured between providers and insurers, the provider is required to charge the full “negotiated” rate they and the insurer have agreed to, even though the patient is paying the entire bill themselves. This creates the odd situation where someone who is uninsured will get a better price than someone with insurance, even if both of them are paying the whole bill themselves."

http://selfpaypatient.com/2014/01/03/insured-patients-can-sa...

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#114

Post by abalone »

zeroname wrote: post #88
abalone wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t cite any evidence to support your claim. Most U.S. doctors graduate with >$100K in medical education debt. Other countries have better health outcomes, so that pretty much kills your “worse service” claim. Rob Delaney is a great example of an American who experienced both US and U.K. systems in depth. Look him up.

> You don’t cite any evidence to support your claim. Most U.S. doctors graduate with >$100K in medical education debt. You posted a source yourself: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/03/u-s-pays-more... Salaries are almost twice as high. Those other countries also tend to have higher taxes and other salary deductions, so doctors earn less. > Other countries have better health outcomes, so that pretty much k…

> > Other countries have better health outcomes, so that pretty much kills your “worse service” claim.

> No it doesn't. Not every US citizen actually receives the service, because they want to (or have to) save money

So by “better” service you mean no service for the poor. That’s better? This is how you spin a system with worse health outcomes into something “better” — again, without citing a shred of evidence.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#115

Post by analog31 »

all2 wrote: post #47
analog31 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed the entire ledger should be made public, so we see how prices vary depending on circumstances, and also, where the money is going.

What other for profit corporations do this?

I would say, ones that are begging to be regulated more intensively. Disclaimer: I'd like to see the government generally begin to tighten the noose around the health care industry.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#116

Post by ocrcustomserver »

woogiewonka wrote: post #43

Is anyone planning to scan all the available PDFs or data sources and put together a comprehensive tool for all hospitals in each state? Now THAT would be a hell of a tool to get hospitals scrambling to lower "not real" prices.

Does a list of all hospitals (in each state) exist somewhere?

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#117

Post by DanBC »

Sir_Vival wrote: post #107
DanBC wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows that 5 year cancer survival rates in the US are high because the US over-tests so much. This is evidence that harm is being caused. It's not evidence of a good health care system. Why are male incontinence products so prevalent in the states? It's because men are pushed to get PSA and similar screening for prostate cancer. This means the US detects a lot of slow growing cancer that's unlikely to kill s…

It doesn't seem like "over testing" or "harm" if the end result is less people dying. The fact of the matter is that I was able to get an MRI the same day I went to the doctor with an issue twice in the US. One of those times was for severe recurrent headaches. The doctor didn't think it was a tumor (and it wasn't), but he did it to be sure. If I were in Canada chances are I would have waited months for that appointm…

> if the end result is less people dying

That isn't the end result.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#118

Post by DanBC »

jtbayly wrote: post #101
DanBC wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the equivalent in the UK: > https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28983924 What do you think this means? How are you understanding this article? Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean what you think it means. Are you honestly saying US insurance companies don't do exactly the same thing?

When the government decides it isn’t worth it, you don’t have the option of paying for it anyway if you disagree. Hence the high-profile cases of parents with money, begging the government to be allowed to take their baby someplace else willing to treat him. Insurance companies cannot prohibit you leaving the country.

> you don’t have the option of paying for it anyway if you disagree.

Completely untrue in the UK. We have private healthcare alongside our NHS system. You can pay for it through insurance, or you can sell your house and pay for it in cash.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#119

Post by DanBC »

jtbayly wrote: post #101
DanBC wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the equivalent in the UK: > https://www.bbc.com/news/health-28983924 What do you think this means? How are you understanding this article? Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean what you think it means. Are you honestly saying US insurance companies don't do exactly the same thing?

When the government decides it isn’t worth it, you don’t have the option of paying for it anyway if you disagree. Hence the high-profile cases of parents with money, begging the government to be allowed to take their baby someplace else willing to treat him. Insurance companies cannot prohibit you leaving the country.

Hang on, are you talking about cases like Alfie Evans? Because that case had nothing to do with coat, and was entirely about what was in Alfie's best interests.

Doctors proposed a plan. The parents disagreed with that plan. The doctor's had to go to court to get permission to go ahead.

Contrast this with the US system. Doctors propose a plan and if the parents disagree it is them who have to go to court to stop the doctors.

Re: Hospitals release lists of retail prices for services

#120

Post by ocrcustomserver »

ocrcustomserver wrote: post #116
woogiewonka wrote: post #43

Is anyone planning to scan all the available PDFs or data sources and put together a comprehensive tool for all hospitals in each state? Now THAT would be a hell of a tool to get hospitals scrambling to lower "not real" prices.

Does a list of all hospitals (in each state) exist somewhere?

Found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/datasets/comments/4lxnjj/request_li...
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