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Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

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Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#111
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for other countries but in India, people buy iphones only as a status symbol. They don't really care about privacy or excellent hardware or Apple ecosystem.

Oh, you've gone and personally asked every single one of them, have you? What a ludicrous generalization. Not only do I personally know Indians who own iPhones and Macbooks for exactly the same reason I do - we like them better - but you could make the same specious argument about anything, anywhere. And really, does merely owning some sort of iPhone really confer status anywhere anymore, if it ever did? I haven't no…

>And really, does merely owning some sort of iPhone really confer status anywhere anymore, if it ever did?

No, but owning a newer one impresses those easily impressed. It says to others that you can afford it. The Internet, at the least, is rife with memes about Android users being "cheap". Gifts of iPhones are often also highly valued over Androids as gifts.

The same sort of person impressed by expensive handbags and highstreet designer clothing in everyday situations is the same sort of person impressed by iPhones and sport cars in cities. I don't mean to pass any judgement when I say that, but I find the notion that people simply don't think "but I'll look poor if I use that" (perhaps unjustifiably, perhaps unconsciously) to be simply absurd. The vast quantity and desire for such show off products would show you wrong.

The truth is that few people (and I know that this might sound unbelievable to a HN reader) simply don't care very much about a phone's functionality beyond availability of apps (which is almost at parity level between Android and iPhone), performance (the minimum accepted being met by almost all popular phones) and integration with other tech (which seems to matter less now that people have moved from using iTunes to Spotify, YouTube and Netflix).

The look and high price are absolutely reasons why someone might prefer to buy and iPhone. It may not confer status to you but it seems to for a lot of others.

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#112

They certainly priced themselves out my value zone. When my 6s died recently (power connector issues) I picked up a moto g6 it works fine for me. My personal age of Apple is now completely over. Over about 3 years or so, I went from all Apple (powerbooks/macbook pros, apple tv, iphones, ipad) to no Apple. It was fun while it lasted.

Do you still use a tablet? What laptops do you like?

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#113
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for other countries but in India, people buy iphones only as a status symbol. They don't really care about privacy or excellent hardware or Apple ecosystem.

Oh, you've gone and personally asked every single one of them, have you? What a ludicrous generalization. Not only do I personally know Indians who own iPhones and Macbooks for exactly the same reason I do - we like them better - but you could make the same specious argument about anything, anywhere. And really, does merely owning some sort of iPhone really confer status anywhere anymore, if it ever did? I haven't no…

touchy subject, but the status symbols most likely aren't targeted at yourself.

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#114

Chinese flagships offer better, more differentiated technology at the same or lower prices... also Android AOSP China is more desirable now because Android apps are first class citizens in China (WeChat + social + camera apps). Apple is losing it's innovation edge as well. Current flagship phone cycles in China are faster than Apple's -- triple, quad cameras, in-screen fingerprint readers, articulating selfie-cams, p…

> Chinese flagships offer [] more differentiated technology at the same or lower prices...

not better...

> Apple is losing it's innovation edge as well.

Apple's edge has always been its implementation. They were not the first in smartphones, computers, tablets, wireless earbuds. Instead, they make their best attempt at hardware in a sophisticated ecosystem.

> triple, quad cameras, in-screen fingerprint readers, articulating selfie-cams, pinhole selfie screens

If these technologies become commonplace, we'll see them in the iPhone, too. And, if history is a guide, we'll think that Apple made them up, too... because of how well executed their products are.

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#115

Is it possible that they deliberately priced themselves in excess of the competition in an attempt to cultivate a more exclusive, high-end image? With so much competition in the Chinese market it has to be hard to distinguish themselves otherwise.

Roughly speaking, from the beancounter perspective, selling one phone for $50 profit is better than selling two phones for $30 profit each, because you only need ongoing support for one customer.

That doesn’t hold up when you need someone to own your phone to sell them apps, a watch, AirPods, etc.

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#116

I really don't understand why anyone is paying $1000+ for a phone when you can get really amazing phones for $300.

I use my phone a lot, and gladly spend a few $ a day for a marginal improvement in my quality of life. Another question - why do people spend $30k on a car when a $10k car is nearly as good? Seems like a much bigger waste of money than the phone.

I bought an old $5000 truck, which I know I can find parts for easily. It's got 200k miles on it so far, and I expect to put another 200k on it (assuming I will eventually need to spend ~3k on a refurbished engine).

Hard to argue with $8k for 250k miles.

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#117
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China, or elsewhere? What in the US is as good as iPhone (including the screen size and storage size at that price point) for under $800? A lot of phone have roughly comparable specs, but the camera and overall software behavior is not comparable on lower-tier phones.

I don't question that the super expensive phones are better than the cheap ones but they are better in ways that are so insignificant to the average person. I got a nexus 5x a few years ago for about $250 and it does everything modern phones do. Yes I have slightly less pixels in my selfie and my screen is still rectangle shaped but is that really worth the extra $800? I suspect its simply a fashion/trend thing pushe…

Nexus 5X is a bad example. I got one two years ago and it was a piece of shit out of the box. No longer supported so I had to trade it in (work phone).

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#118
post #53
post #8

That's part of it, but the bigger issue is China is rapidly slowing down. Otherwise Apple would be seeing shrinking sales in other regions, which according to Cook has not been the case. WSJ today posted this alarming chart of Chinese consumption-tax revenue: https://i.imgur.com/2LzUKrz.png https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-economic-downturn-takes-...

> WSJ today posted this alarming chart of Chinese consumption-tax revenue... Here's an outline link for that WSJ article: https://outline.com/tH8sWn And here's the passage that describes what goods are affected by that consumption tax: > Consumption tax in China is imposed on luxury goods such as high-end cosmetics and jewelry, and items deemed environmentally unfriendly, like cars and gasoline.

So, probably the only thing that China buys from the West...

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key differentiator is that in China your smartphone can in many ways be abstracted down to the platform that runs WeChat. So Apple's key lock-ins like iMessage and FaceTime don't matter and it has to compete on price. Apple greatly increased prices in the US/EU also and many of these regions are facing a recession too, but according to Tim Cook's letter those consumers didn't abandon the iPhone. What's unique to…

Hmm... I'm not convinced by that. At least in the UK, I don't know many people who use FaceTime (WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger are the most popular video chat software). People do use iMessage, but that falls back to SMS if you don't have an iphone, and SMS messages are universally free here these days.

As a UK counterpoint, most of my friends and family (at least 15 people) use iPhones and iMessage/FaceTime is a major reason for sticking to the Apple ecosystem for us.

Re: Apple Priced Itself Out of Shrinking Chinese Smartphone Market

#120
post #8

That's part of it, but the bigger issue is China is rapidly slowing down. Otherwise Apple would be seeing shrinking sales in other regions, which according to Cook has not been the case. WSJ today posted this alarming chart of Chinese consumption-tax revenue: https://i.imgur.com/2LzUKrz.png https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-economic-downturn-takes-...

I think the bigger problem is that the Chinese high-end market is tapped out for anything except newer-looking models (i.e. non-S updates), and that local Chinese brands are eating the low and medium end. Which Apple shouldn't want to dabble in anyway, as the margins are very thin.
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