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PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

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Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#111
post #88

They also reportedly shutdown Subscribe Star recently, when people started to use it instead of Patreon, in the wake of the Patreon banning of some prominent You Tuber. This isn't working. The free market doesn't seem to work well in the tech world, where we have all powerfull monopolies controlling what we say, what we know and what we buy. We need new laws.

I don't know if we need new laws. We need more competitors, for sure. Jordan Peterson (if you know him) has partnered to solve the problem of PayPal and Patreon deplatforming people, and is starting a competing service that doesn't depend on traditional payment circuits. No one knows much about how it will work, but it might prove to be a good alternative to avoid being at the mercy of these companies.

For some reason, perhaps that they traffic in information, which is cheaply duplicated, perhaps because of network effects, tech businesses seem more prone to generate giant, seemingly invincible monopolies. Google, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Paypal, Youtube. Most people wouldn't be able to name a competitor to any of these, let alone use it. I do not know if competition, as is possible today, can work.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#112
post #102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MasterCard and Visa are though. If you note elsewhere in the thread, it’s basically on their request that a lot of people have been banned.

MasterCard and Visa, 2 seperate companies in the same space are "monopolies"? You literally just proved yourself wrong.

Sometimes people say "monopoly" when they mean "cartel". Are you arguing that these companies do not have substantial market power compared to more competitive markets or are you just trying to distract from the discussion with an argument over definitions? Do we see Mastercard and Visa competing on price (e.g. interchange rates)?

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well everyone who wants to accept payments on the internet ultimately relies on VisaMasterCard. They will shut you off and get other payment processors to shut you off like happened to SubscribeStar when they set up as a Patreon competitor. https://twitter.com/nickmon1112/status/1076886857445711872?s... Long twitter thread on the relation between MasterCard, Visa and Patreon and how the credit card cartel is attempti…

Why does it bottom out in these credit card companies? Is it just prohibitively hard to set up a competitor because you need some critical mass of banks to sign on? Or because people want to pay with credit card and cc companies will prohibit transactions to a fledgling competitor?

Ultimately the ones who issue the credit are the banks. Banks have a lot of rules to follow set by the government. They are the ones who created visa and mc. PayPal, stripe all these other services ultimately rely on them. You can do BTC, but there is risk there to with trasaction costs and changing exchange rate.

These banks want to reduce thier risks as much as possible. CC laws in America provide a lot of protection for the consumer.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#114
post #102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MasterCard and Visa are though. If you note elsewhere in the thread, it’s basically on their request that a lot of people have been banned.

MasterCard and Visa, 2 seperate companies in the same space are "monopolies"? You literally just proved yourself wrong.

Do you also consider Google and Bing on the same footing?[0] No, right?. But in anycase, fair enough, the technical correct one is duopoly—the problem just is, it doesn't make it any better.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/267161/market-share-of-s...

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#115
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened to me years ago: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/12/09/december-2011-links-paypa... . Why anyone uses Paypal today is beyond me. Why anyone doesn't expect this is really beyond me.

Paypal is practically the only commonly accepted online payment method that doesn't require me to have a credit card. The reason people use Paypal today is that they offer a service without much competition to people who want to pay , so if you want to get paid you're leaving money on the table if you don't accept Paypal. This does of course depend on where your customer base is. Credit cards are universal in the US,…

Also, it's pretty much the only international way to pay without giving your card credentials to the seller.

When buying locally you can usually pay by wire transfer or Swish, but otherwise PayPal is the least bad option (as a buyer).

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#116
post #102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MasterCard and Visa are though. If you note elsewhere in the thread, it’s basically on their request that a lot of people have been banned.

MasterCard and Visa, 2 seperate companies in the same space are "monopolies"? You literally just proved yourself wrong.

MasterCard and Visa may be 2 companies but they have continued to violated antitrust laws and are in many cases acting like a single entity [1].

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-18/visa-mast...

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#117
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened to me years ago: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/12/09/december-2011-links-paypa... . Why anyone uses Paypal today is beyond me. Why anyone doesn't expect this is really beyond me.

The percentage of links to your blog that you post in your comments is extremely high and extremely notable. Make of that what you will.

Beats users linking to one of the near-web-monopoly sites like twitter or facebook constantly!

I'm shocked you're essentially chastising someone for having their own domain and publishing articles on it they then link to. If anything we should be encouraging this behavior.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#118
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happened to me years ago: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/12/09/december-2011-links-paypa... . Why anyone uses Paypal today is beyond me. Why anyone doesn't expect this is really beyond me.

Paypal is practically the only commonly accepted online payment method that doesn't require me to have a credit card. The reason people use Paypal today is that they offer a service without much competition to people who want to pay , so if you want to get paid you're leaving money on the table if you don't accept Paypal. This does of course depend on where your customer base is. Credit cards are universal in the US,…

people only use paypal because vendors accept paypal.

you wouldn't have a paypal account otherwise.

and outside of the usa, most bank systems have ways to forward money based on other records. I've implemented a few in south American countries where by accepting CC from one operator you also get an optional printable invoice (boleto) that can be paid on the bank (online or not) and it transfer same day to your account.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#119
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if we need new laws. We need more competitors, for sure. Jordan Peterson (if you know him) has partnered to solve the problem of PayPal and Patreon deplatforming people, and is starting a competing service that doesn't depend on traditional payment circuits. No one knows much about how it will work, but it might prove to be a good alternative to avoid being at the mercy of these companies.

For some reason, perhaps that they traffic in information, which is cheaply duplicated, perhaps because of network effects, tech businesses seem more prone to generate giant, seemingly invincible monopolies. Google, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Paypal, Youtube. Most people wouldn't be able to name a competitor to any of these, let alone use it. I do not know if competition, as is possible today, can work.

Sure, but Patreon is for a small group of people. Meaning, the mass audience goes there because a small group of creators told them that's how they can support them.

If that small group of creators finds a better alternative, and tells their audience to support them at the alternative rather than Patreon, they will go there.

SubscribeStar was enjoying a good amount of success as a Patreon alternative once a few users who got banned move to it, (but then PayPal cut SubscribeStar off).

Only time can tell.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#120
post #102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MasterCard and Visa are though. If you note elsewhere in the thread, it’s basically on their request that a lot of people have been banned.

MasterCard and Visa, 2 seperate companies in the same space are "monopolies"? You literally just proved yourself wrong.

The words 'oligopoly', 'cartel', and 'syndicate' are more appropriate.
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