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What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

citylab.com

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Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#111

Post by romwell »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #81
darkerside wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been to Times Square in a while, but I have to assume that's a good example of a busy pedestrian zone in America.

I wouldn't say so. It felt more accidental to me than anything else. Like they just took a place designed for cars, shut the cars out, and yeah it's busy because it's in NYC and there's plenty of density and shops, but the actual urban design itself still felt largely bad and dumb. Maybe it's changed since I've been, though.

> Like they just took a place designed for cars

NYC was developed in its current form, with high-rises and all, well before cars were commonplace[1].

So no, they didn't take a place designed for cars, and yes, that's why it actually works when you take the cars out of the equation again.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_N...

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#112

Post by romwell »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #106
darkerside wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been to Times Square in a while, but I have to assume that's a good example of a busy pedestrian zone in America.

Times square is basically just a tourist trap and not representative of a commercial zone that serves the local residential population. Locals are only there because of the transit access.

> Locals are only there because of the transit access.

Spoiler: that's one of the major reasons why city centers work. Transportation hubs are also commercial hubs.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#113

Post by romwell »

whatshisface wrote: post #30
baxtr wrote: post #28

I don’t get why cities are built around cars. As much as I love to jump into my car right outside my house, I’d love it even more when there was no car sound in the streets and children could safely walk everywhere. In densely populated cities cars should be banned outside of major roads

Building a city around cars means building it around people who live far away. The people who live out in the suburbs and commute in get a lot more out of the roads than the people who are a block away from every place they need to go.

>Building a city around cars means building it around people who live far away.

No, that's what the suburban rail is for (see: NYC).

If anything, the suburban people can always park on the outskirts of city centers, and use public transportation (or walk) in the city.

But no, the cities had to be designed for the automobile. There was a lot of money to be made that way for the auto companies.

Think it sounds like a conspiracy theory? You are right, except that it's actually true[1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#115

Post by ajmurmann »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #79
krylon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, we have "Verkehrsberuhigte Zonen"[0] (Wikipedia says the english term is "living street"), where the speed limit is very low, and drivers are expected to look out for playing children. It works relatively well, at least in residential areas. Usually such streets are built in such a way you cannot go very fast any way. [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkehrsberuhigter_Bereich / https://en.wikipedia.org/…

As an American living in Munich now: even regular neighborhood streets are far friendlier to walking and biking (and thus children) in Germany compared to America. They're much narrower, lower speed limits, more nearby cut-throughs and trails and protected bike lanes. Your average US street prioritizes cars to the exclusion of anything else. Walking is pointless, it feels terrible and nothing is within walking distan…

And then ironically it's also worse to drive a car in the US. Where speed limits could be higher without risking anyone else they are still stupid low and many drivers don't know how to zip or even merge or even use their turn signals. It's really the worst for both drivers and pedestrians.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#116

Post by noobermin »

Touche wrote: post #69
whatshisface wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a city around cars means building it around people who live far away. The people who live out in the suburbs and commute in get a lot more out of the roads than the people who are a block away from every place they need to go.

Aka, the superwealthy.

The situation is reversed in the USA. In the US, the wealthy and middle class live in suburbs. The poor live in the "inner city" which essentially is a euphemism for ghetto.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#117

Post by noobermin »

kingo55 wrote: post #41
whatshisface wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Businesses protested for months about potential lost business Out of curiosity, how did that pan out? Closing off an area to road traffic is basically a re-prioritization towards nearby residents, and away from distant visitors and the commerce that they engage in, so it would be interesting to know how badly the latter groups suffer.

Hard to say, I think businesses haven't been affected too badly. I've seen some closures but there were closures back when vehicles were permitted all the way through the street, too... Distant visitors still arrive by tram loads. And parking, whilst terrible, is available close by. When you think about switching the area back to allow cars again, you begin to realise how little you needed that street to begin with.…

>It was mostly for people showing off their cars and loud music.

While it's seems like a shoddy observation, it's surprising how much car usage isn't really about transport but about status or psychological relief. "Going for a drive" is equivalent to "going for a walk" in much of the US.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#118

Post by ajmurmann »

leetcrew wrote: post #39
darkpuma wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America driving at 6 km/h (3.7mph) in a parking lot would induce road rage in other drivers. Trying to make roads with a 6 km/h speed limit would be political suicide for any politician that recommended it.

that's an absurd speed. i literally cannot go that slow in my car without lugging the engine or slipping the clutch the whole way. no thanks.

It's really not that bad. Keep in mind that you typically will only go this slow for the last 15-60s of your drive. Before that you will likely go faster than on a typical drive in the US. European speed limits and especially German ones have a lot more range then US speed limits. To be that makes for a more deliberate and fun driving experience. It also turns out to be safer if you look at fatalities per mile traveled, even including the Autobahn which seems to be unfathomable to most Americans.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#119

Post by freeone3000 »

lmm wrote: post #110
ip26 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, we can go back and forth with datapoints forever. The London Underground uses subterranean pedestrian tunnels, though personally I've only walked the one at Heathrow, at night. As it's the main way between terminals I expect it sees lots of foot traffic during the day.

Most of those pedestrian tunnels are pretty unpleasant; everyone I know regards them as a necessary evil at best. Tunnels are inherently not human-friendly spaces (limited natural light) so I don't think you'll find any real success stories for pedestrian tunnels; better to put the cars in tunnels if you must go that route.

Montreal's underground is a pretty strong counterexample. The pedestrian "tunnels" have retail, dining, etc on the sides, with strong artificial lighting and skylights when possible. It's closer to a mall than a tunnel, and they're quite nice.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#120

Post by ajmurmann »

romwell wrote: post #112
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Times square is basically just a tourist trap and not representative of a commercial zone that serves the local residential population. Locals are only there because of the transit access.

> Locals are only there because of the transit access. Spoiler: that's one of the major reasons why city centers work. Transportation hubs are also commercial hubs.

Almost off topic: that to me was one of the most interesting learnings from playing Second Life. Because you could teleport anywhere, location only mattered for having a view. There were hardly any interesting clusters of structures. This made it hard to organically discover fun stuff. If the world hadn't had teleportation from anywhere to anywhere but some kind of portal system, I think it would have been way more interesting.
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