Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began • Hacker News Board

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#111

Post by watwut » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #68

InGodsName wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it works like that. My overworked friends don't feel that helpless. They can eat out anytime, go to any concert they desire, buy any gadget. They feel secure and safe, they work hard only due to expectation and societal pressure but a few many are self driven And they don't think like ohhh we don't have capacity to have kids. They infact say they can have kids anytime they wish and they aren't missing o…

Which illustrates the disgusting superficiality and emptiness of those people. I once listened to a lecture where the ethos of consumerism was blamed for the paradox of low birth rates among higher earners over lower earners, that is, you don't find that happening in non-consumerist societies. The reason was that higher earners were more likely to be keeping up with the Jones' and thus preferred to spend their extra…

It is not only consumerism and money or things. A women in consumerist countries has a lot to loose by having child - you won't be fully same and equal as before. In non consumerist the loss is not the same.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#112

Post by Trill-I-Am » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

beginningguava wrote: post #97

sprash wrote: post #60

If the Japanese government wants to do the right thing, all it has to do is to let the population contract even further until Asset prices begin to freefall. Then everything will be affordable again for young Japanese citizens and a good longterm economic outlook for the future is the best thing you can do to stimulate birthrates. If Japan wants to screw it up, it should allow mass immigration. This way asset prices…

One of the better takes I've seen on the situation: https://imgur.com/a/Zg32EAl cheaper housing, higher wages, less crime, less pollution The only people hurt by stable population are giant corporations who want cheap labor and more consumers. Japan will be fine, they'll just increase productivity with technology rather than throwing bodies at problems US should solve the problem by giving bigger tax deductions to in…

Don’t most social insurance/safety net schemes require a growing population?

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#113

Post by bunnycorn » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

polotics wrote: post #16

bunnycorn wrote: post #10

My country is even worse, 1.31. Japan looks like a kindergarten compared to Portugal.

Not the same thing: Portugal has a very healthy immigrant diaspora, some will go back.

> some will go back

If they get back. And will most probably leave their descendants back.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#114

Post by bunnycorn » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

smackay wrote: post #34

polotics wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same thing: Portugal has a very healthy immigrant diaspora, some will go back.

It's pretty standard for people to work abroad for a couple of decades then retire back home to their birthplace and open a pastelaria (cafe). Sadly, the market is pretty saturated and the net contribution to the economy is not that high. From personal experience there are a number of professionals at early stages in their careers that return but quickly they realise that the opportunities are still rather limited an…

> From personal experience there are a number of professionals at early stages in their careers that return but quickly they realise that the opportunities are still rather limited and reverse their decision within a few years.

I don't see any of that.

The only people that came back, were those that went to Angola before the oil crash that halted the country.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#115

Post by dang » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

diablolicoo wrote: post #72

Maybe they should adopt Islam, as it seems very successful in encouraging people to produce the most amount of babies humanly possible. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

We've banned this account for trolling. Creating accounts to do that will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#116

Post by dang » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 7:45 PM UTC

erpaa wrote: post #8

Good Idea actually. In Norway this issue was studied when it still was still politically possible. The probability of a baby becoming "marginaliserad" ie social fuck-up was 40% for single mothers, 20% for working mothers and "incredibly low" for full-time mothers. Babies have no absolute intrinsic value perse, this is why replacing natives with imported IQ-72 people does not work.

We've banned this account for trolling. If you continue to create accounts to break the site guidelines with, we will ban your main account as well.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of the site to heart—intellectual curiosity and thoughtful conversation—we'd be grateful. This community is fragile and far from fireproof.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18739154 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#117

Post by dang » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

asianthrowaway wrote: post #51

bayesian_horse wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be better? If that worked, it will take 20 to 30 years to see any improvement in the workforce, but will cost a lot up-front. However, financial incentives have never worked. In fact, I don't know of a single political measure which has significantly raise birth rates. The only way that might work would be to discourage women's education, which of course nobody wants (I hope...). Children are massively…

Because immigrants are here to stay. This will forever change the demographic composition of Japan. I think one only has to look at Europe to see that mass immigration of low skilled labor from foreign cultures does a lot of harm in the long run.

Since we just asked you to stop posting like this, I've banned this account.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#118

Post by erpaa » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 8:45 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #116

erpaa wrote: post #8

Good Idea actually. In Norway this issue was studied when it still was still politically possible. The probability of a baby becoming "marginaliserad" ie social fuck-up was 40% for single mothers, 20% for working mothers and "incredibly low" for full-time mothers. Babies have no absolute intrinsic value perse, this is why replacing natives with imported IQ-72 people does not work.

We've banned this account for trolling. If you continue to create accounts to break the site guidelines with, we will ban your main account as well. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of the site to heart—intellectual curiosity and thoughtful conversation—we'd be grateful. This community is fragile and far from fireproof. We detached this subthread from https:/…

Those removed testicles must itch like hell. Feel sorry for you.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#119

Post by the_rosentotter » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

diablolicoo wrote: post #72

Maybe they should adopt Islam, as it seems very successful in encouraging people to produce the most amount of babies humanly possible. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth

Since this is a very politicized topic, as a Muslim I feel it is worth pointing out that there is nothing in Islam that promotes having many children per se (this topic is even omitted in the linked Wikipedia article).

On the contrary, Islam does not forbid contraception or even abortion, up until four months of gestation.

The trend described is highly socioeconomic.

Re: Number of babies born in Japan is the lowest since records began

#120

Post by dgut » Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 9:37 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #68

InGodsName wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it works like that. My overworked friends don't feel that helpless. They can eat out anytime, go to any concert they desire, buy any gadget. They feel secure and safe, they work hard only due to expectation and societal pressure but a few many are self driven And they don't think like ohhh we don't have capacity to have kids. They infact say they can have kids anytime they wish and they aren't missing o…

Which illustrates the disgusting superficiality and emptiness of those people. I once listened to a lecture where the ethos of consumerism was blamed for the paradox of low birth rates among higher earners over lower earners, that is, you don't find that happening in non-consumerist societies. The reason was that higher earners were more likely to be keeping up with the Jones' and thus preferred to spend their extra…

I believe the low birth rates among higher earners has to do with the simple fact that high earners are more carrier oriented (for various reasons). It's hard to educate yourself and bring up children at the same time (my wife is currently there). Anecdotally, a friend just recently failed her (unpaid) PhD because in France (where she lives) in her field you have 4 years to finish. She is Middle-eastern, and she decided to have two children during that period.

Some countries (take Cuba for instance) have little consumerism but their birthrate remains low (dysfunctional economy + educated population).