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China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

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Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#111

Post by throwba43yt »

josephpmay wrote: post #35
pasbesoin wrote: post #13

U.S. perspective, writing this. I find this is an area where a "moral decision" is rather clear-cut. And it highlights the... "amorality", at best, of much of our relationship (whether speaking at the personal level or the state/economy level) with contemporary China. With our technology, we've enabled and empowered a political and economic structure that has not... "sorted its shit" as part of achieving same. Simult…

At first look, from a Western perspective, this is 100% clear-cut morally bad. But I've also learned a limited amount about the Chinese moral perspective in college, and it can be a useful exercise to examine how someone who doesn't have a Judeo-Christian/Locke moral framework may view this practice. In some ways, the harvesting of organs from political prisoners can be viewed as the trolley problem. Killing one poli…

From an Eastern perspective, this is 100% clear-cut morally bad too.

Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism would all say this is bad.

What’s going on here is not culture, but government.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#112

Post by pleasecalllater »

And nothing will change, as usually. Russia attacked Ukraine - lots of countries said how unhappy they were and that's all - nothing happened.

China is too strong, so companies will still make deals, will still buy and sell there, will just do whatever the China government wants. The same with the politicians bought by the companies.

Any tribunal will not change anything. Even UN is paralyzed as the all sanctions against China will get China's veto and there won't be any decision.

Even when Mr. Trump made concentration camps for children (just like Germans did during the WW2) did anything change after publishing the information about that?

So my final thought is quite sad: nothing will change, live on, be happy that you live in such a country which respects some other values (e.g. exploits work of children in Asia but not your children, so you can think that nothing happens).

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#113

Post by ryanmarsh »

1001101 wrote: post #92
reaperducer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how much more efficiently the Chinese government could identify involuntary donors if it had better access to people's personal information. Perhaps through a search engine of some kind. One with a harmless-sounding name. Maybe "Dragonfly" would be a good name.

Good incentive to get your social credit score up.

High social credit could be an indicator of a clean life and thus, clean organs.

Better off looking like an alcoholic on paper.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#114

Post by wl »

DannyB2 wrote: post #30
hnaccy wrote: post #8

You can't get much more dystopian or abhorrent than using a political minority as livestock.

The word 'harvested' is so much nicer than 'stolen'. That makes the 'optics' better. (i feel sick now)

"Stolen" is so much nicer than "murdered."

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#116

Post by crimsonalucard »

blhack wrote: post #74

Why does the west continue to tolerate China as a trading partner? China is pretty obviously building their empire. They, as a government, appear to have almost no regard whatsoever for human life. They, as a government, appear to have absolutely no regard whatsoever for national sovereignty. They, as a government, appear to have absolutely no regard for the environment. It just seems completely inevitable to me that…

It's not as atrocious as you think. The united states has its' own fair share of heinous crimes as well.

I feel a lot of people have this perception of China as a Technologically powerful North Korea... Nothing can be further from the truth.

China is like an asian tiger... Japan, Singapore or Taiwan.. or maybe not exactly an asian tiger, but somewhere in-between North Korea and an Asian Tiger but leaning much more closer to an Asian Tiger than it does its' historical regime based roots.

You guys need to visit China to get a more realistic perspective. I recommend Shenzhen.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#117

Post by prepend »

Spidler wrote: post #110
blhack wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We (the U.S) tolerate their disrespect for human rights because we also do not respect human rights I'm sorry but this statement is just absolutely and completely ridiculous. I don't know if you've either never been to The United States, or you've never left The United States, but the difference between the respect that we have for human rights, and the respect that much of the rest of the world has, is stark.

How many children do you hold imprisoned right now? How many children have been defending themselves in courts recently? How many women, trans or otherwise have been suffering at the hands of your anti-women/abortion movement? You don't even prosecute the people who commit atrocities in your own country, much less those that commit them in others. You don't have respect for human rights or values. As an institution,…

On the scale of human rights, having your rights restricted in planning children (ie, restricting abortion) and having your organs removed are very far apart.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#118

Post by ryanmarsh »

nneonneo wrote: post #101

So it's worth noting that allegations about organ harvesting have been circulating since at least the 2000s. There is likely (almost certainly) credibility in the claims that political prisoners (mostly Falun Gong practitioners) were harvested for organs in the early 2000s. From what I can tell, the tribunal is validating that these abuses occurred. However, there is not any hard evidence (that I know of - I'd be hap…

This would be easy to confirm. How many heart transplants took place in China in 2017? Then find an explanation for the source.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#119

Post by peterwwillis »

throwawayofis wrote: post #18

China harvested organs from political prisoners on substantial scale, says tribunal Richard Hurley The BMJ Forced harvesting of organs from prisoners of conscience in China has been “substantial,” says an interim judgment of an independent “people’s tribunal” set up to determine whether the country’s transplantation practices breached international criminal law. The former English judge Geoffrey Nice QC, the tribunal…

Pastebin links are better for this kind of thing

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#120

Post by theonemind »

jamesjue wrote: post #11

From the article, "The Independent Tribunal into Forced Organ Harvesting from Prisoners of Conscience in China heard evidence in public in London on 8-10 December. A seven strong panel questioned 30 witnesses, including refugees from China, doctors, and investigators.". Clearly, solid and irrefutable conclusions on such a serious matter only need 3 days of hearing from 30 witnesses.

That seems plausible to me. They had evidence and witnesses, and don't seem to claim exhaustive knowledge of scope or every detail of implementation. Did it happen? Y/N ... three days, 30 witnesses, and evidence, to determine 1 bit of information. Y or N. We got Y. That does not seem far-fetched or necessarily slipshod.
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