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Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

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Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#111

Post by iso1337 »

scelerat wrote: post #105

In West Oakland I see many people using the Ford Bikes, but yet even more people using the Lime scooters. Kids, adults, techies, non-techies. I think they look kind of dorky, and some end up on the sidewalk and dumped in Lake Merritt. On the other hand, it appears that people are using these scooters a lot, possibly instead of driving. That seems like a positive outcome to me.

I'd imagine that horseless carriages looked dorky back when they were introduced too :) Maybe it's one of those things that will become normalized with time.

It would be good if more safety concerns were met though - I do think mandating helmet usage is a good thing.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#112

Post by jfz »

scelerat wrote: post #105

In West Oakland I see many people using the Ford Bikes, but yet even more people using the Lime scooters. Kids, adults, techies, non-techies. I think they look kind of dorky, and some end up on the sidewalk and dumped in Lake Merritt. On the other hand, it appears that people are using these scooters a lot, possibly instead of driving. That seems like a positive outcome to me.

I suspect that the bikes and scooters will appear less dorky over time, as they get normalized. Some people say the bikes "look pretty cool"[1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/23/17882996/teens-electric-s...

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#113

Post by SamReidHughes »

cortesoft wrote: post #68
fourmii wrote: post #50

These scooters and scooter companies seem pretty divisive, especially on HN. I understand they're operating in grey areas, I guess kinda like Uber before them, but they are causing (I think) positive disruption. I personally love these scooters. I'm living in Australia now where we don't have them. But last month I took a 3 week road trip from LAX to DC and back so I could hit cities I hadn't been to before. And in m…

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

What about all the cars littered on the sides of the street? Don't you have to walk around those too?

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#114

Post by cortesoft »

kerng wrote: post #75
cortesoft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

Maybe some parking areas for cars can be replaced in favor of scooters and bikes in certain places. Its interesting how we accept that cars are allowed to park nearly everywhere in cities. It's just normal - scooter and bikes will be a new normal also. But hopefully not in addition but instead of cars in some areas.

Santa Monica has a TON of parking laws. You certainly can NOT just park your car anywhere you want. Pretty much every parking spot available in the city has rules - how long you can park there, how much you have to pay to park there, who is allowed to park there, what permits you need, etc.

We have NONE of this for scooters.

We need these same rules for scooters that we have for cars.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#115

Post by iso1337 »

justinator wrote: post #104
superfrank wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I love the scooters and bikes these companies provide and I think you make a really good point about them being a positive disruption. It's pretty clear that there is a growing demand for ways to get around other than driving yourself. Lyft and Uber are great for covering distances, but have their issues. In busy metro areas it can often be quicker to walk than it is to drive if you're only going a mile a…

Privately owning a bike is not cost prohibitive, you know.

It is when you have to figure out how to get the bike to the start of your last mile, deal with flat tyres, etc.

With these scooters, you can take public transportation (keep in mind some systems don't allow bikes on their transit systems) to somewhere, then solve the last mile problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile_(transportation)

Not to mention $200+ to own a bike may not seem like a lot to you, but could be a lot to someone with low income. The capex cost can be prohibitive.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#116

Post by jyrkesh »

justinator wrote: post #104
superfrank wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I love the scooters and bikes these companies provide and I think you make a really good point about them being a positive disruption. It's pretty clear that there is a growing demand for ways to get around other than driving yourself. Lyft and Uber are great for covering distances, but have their issues. In busy metro areas it can often be quicker to walk than it is to drive if you're only going a mile a…

Privately owning a bike is not cost prohibitive, you know.

It could be from the perspective of storage and maintenance. For me, one of the hardest things about owning a bike is where the hell to put it. I live in a city where I can't lock it up outside overnight or it'll eventually be stolen.

And as someone else mentioned, flat tires are a pain, checking/maintaining brakes are a pain...I can afford to have someone else do it, but that's still way more of a hassle than just booping a bike on the sidewalk.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#117

Post by sonofaplum »

qudat wrote: post #92
sonofaplum wrote: post #47

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies, specifically, fail. With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these scooters is only 3 months? Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive from an environmental standpoint?

> People drive them on the sidewalks Where else would they drive them? On the road? They would just contribute to the thousands of cyclists that die or are seriously injured every year. If you are suggesting that every electric vehicle be banned because sidewalks are for pedestrians only then I disagree. Streets are for cars only, don't let these fake bike lanes fool you.

Vehicles that move faster than pedestrians should go on the road, like bicycles do. As a bike rider, its a vastly superior option that going on the sidewalk.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#118

Post by cortesoft »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #113
cortesoft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

What about all the cars littered on the sides of the street? Don't you have to walk around those too?

No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed. I mean, in Santa Monica if you are 1 minute late past the time on the sign you will get towed.

The cars are parked in designated spots on the road, with all sorts of rules about how long and how much you have to pay for the spot. In Santa Monica, pretty much every available parking spot has a meter that means you have to pay to park there, and are limited in how long you can park there.

Now, we can have all sorts of public policy debates about how much of a city's public space should be dedicated to parking spots, but at least the public had a say in the policy and at least there IS a policy.

We just need rules around where you can park the scooters and for how long, and how much you have to pay to use the public space to park your scooter.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#119

Post by monksy »

sonofaplum wrote: post #47

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies, specifically, fail. With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these scooters is only 3 months? Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive from an environmental standpoint?

Sounds like they're leaving trash at your door. Get an angle grinder and then dump it in the trash.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#120

Post by iso1337 »

cortesoft wrote: post #58
marcell wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people derive value from the service. It's faster than walking, more convenient than an Uber, and doesn't require a car. Let's leave the "get off my lawn" comments off HN.

Just because lots of people derive value from a service does not give them carte blanche to push externalities onto everyone else. I mean, do you say "No no, you can't complain about all those chemicals being dumped into that river... look at all the value people are deriving from thing the factory is producing!"

Yes, there are externalities, but perhaps the question to ask is, are the externalities of scooters less than those of cars when solving the last mile problem in transportation?

Cars and drivers, in my view, push MUCH more externalities onto everyone else (and let's not limit ourselves to thinking locally, all that CO2 we emit from driving disproportionately affects those in the third world and those yet unborn).

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