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Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

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Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#111

Post by everybodyknows »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #86
beginningguava wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is kind of sad that we have this way of carving up the world into arbitrary pieces and calling us "us" and them "the enemy". It's not arbitrary, our ancestors in many cases fought and died to establish those lines so that they could live their lives how they wanted within those lines. They worked hard so that their children and grandchildren and fellow citizens could have better lives within those lines. To disco…

In the USA's case it's more like "committed mass genocide to win land"... Doesn't sound so noble then, eh?

The historical reality check being that it's been a few hundred thousand years now since land was won in wholesale quantity by any other means, sabre-toothed cats having lost their place at the top of the food chain quite some time ago.

Carthaginians, Celts, Bosnians, Tutsi, Rohingya ...

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#112

Post by beginningguava »

denzil_correa wrote: post #88
beginningguava wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is kind of sad that we have this way of carving up the world into arbitrary pieces and calling us "us" and them "the enemy". It's not arbitrary, our ancestors in many cases fought and died to establish those lines so that they could live their lives how they wanted within those lines. They worked hard so that their children and grandchildren and fellow citizens could have better lives within those lines. To disco…

We do not have any influence on which side of the line we are born : that's purely luck.

if you believe in genetics/evolution it's not luck. The smarter and stronger side wins. Is it luck that you weren't born as a squirrel or some other animal?

My family members fought in wars, paid taxes, and helped build up the country so their descendants could have a better life, calling that nothing but luck is disrespectful to the sacrifices they made.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#113

Post by baddox »

mikeash wrote: post #67
baddox wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that many US states also have sodomy laws, so in those states you’ve just got to hope that the 2003 Supreme Court decision sticks around.

Those laws have been overturned. That they’re still on the books means nothing.

That’s precisely the Supreme Court case I was referring to. The fact that the laws are still on the books in many states is certainly an indicator the priority those state governments give to protecting LGBT rights.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#114

Post by mikeash »

baddox wrote: post #113
mikeash wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those laws have been overturned. That they’re still on the books means nothing.

That’s precisely the Supreme Court case I was referring to. The fact that the laws are still on the books in many states is certainly an indicator the priority those state governments give to protecting LGBT rights.

It means nothing. Repealing those laws would be a nice symbolic gesture but it’s also a waste of time. It’s normal to leave overturned laws on the books.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#115

Post by nisuni »

tao_oat wrote: post #103
nisuni wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no such thing as an absence of identity politics. Sure there is! Its name is meritocracy.

Sure, the concept exists but you'll be hard-pressed to point to instances of it existing currently... Overcoming historical biases doesn't happen just by deciding to be a meritocracy.

Two candidates for a position in the academia are not evaluated in terms of historical bias, they are evaluated looking at their CV, track record, publications, etc...

That’s meritocracy. And there’s no place for this “historical biases” in the decision making process in the academia. At least not in science.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#116

Post by throwawayvisa »

aerovistae wrote: post #63
throwawayvisa wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm someone who was born with a "shitty" passport. It's not the visa part, but rather I can't spontaneously just "go somewhere". All my travels need to be planned weeks, if not months, ahead. Fortunately, I'm on a path to acquire another citizenship and my children will have a "good" passport at birth.

Which two countries, if you don't mind saying? I don't think it would compromise your throwaway status.

Vietnam -> Australia

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#117

Post by thomasahle »

falcor84 wrote: post #61
Radim wrote: post #17

Lest you think this is a problem only for Africans & USA: I was denied visa, going to present my paper at NIPS 2010 in Vancouver, Canada. Czech citizen (EU), PhD student at the time, with obvious ties to CZ. I fully respect each country's right to refuse anyone, including without providing a reason (as was the case with me). I see it as "their loss" :-) You pesky computer scientists, stay away!

Regarding the right to refuse anyone, I was of the same opinion myself but mostly changed my mind after reading this article posted on HN: http://www.owl232.net/papers/immigration.htm I now find this to be a very interesting and subtle ethical question

David Miller also had an interesting episode on Philosophy bites on the issue: https://philosophybites.com/2016/11/david-miller-on-immigrat...

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#118

Post by truculent »

nisuni wrote: post #94
truculent wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there’s no place for identity politics. There's no such thing as an absence of identity politics. Only the politics of the status quo, which as we know has not been fantastic for PoC, women, LGBT+, ...

> There's no such thing as an absence of identity politics. Sure there is! Its name is meritocracy.

Meritocracy and identity politics are different things, not antonyms. In fact, I'd argue that the goal of identity politics is to establish a meritocracy that enables all people to flourish.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#119

Post by truculent »

nisuni wrote: post #115
tao_oat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the concept exists but you'll be hard-pressed to point to instances of it existing currently... Overcoming historical biases doesn't happen just by deciding to be a meritocracy.

Two candidates for a position in the academia are not evaluated in terms of historical bias, they are evaluated looking at their CV, track record, publications, etc... That’s meritocracy. And there’s no place for this “historical biases” in the decision making process in the academia. At least not in science.

Biases exist for more reasons than biased interviewers. Within certain structures, well-meaning people doing their jobs will inadvertently propagate injustices and biases. There is evidence for this. This isn't hard.

Re: Major AI conference is moving to Africa in 2020 due to visa issues

#120

Post by Markoff »

denzil_correa wrote: post #90
Markoff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has viavisa even for EU citizens and i had personal interview with consul to get tourist visa, heck even Iran was easier

When did you last travel to India? This has changed in the last 3 years or so. You can get a visa sitting in front of your computer. https://indianvisaonline.gov.in/evisa/tvoa.html

more than 3 years ago, but why not visa free Malaysia for instance? KUL it's also pretty big transit hub
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