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Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

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Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#111

Post by ubernostrum »

elguyosupremo wrote: post #93
ubernostrum wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm unlikely ever to trust Google's cloud offerings simply because of their track record of support/service, or rather lack of it. Yes, even for paying customers who paid them payments by paying. "Oops, the algorithm decided to wipe out your business. No, you can't talk to a human. No, you can't appeal it and there's no review, and we can't tell you why, because the algorithm said so" is something Google has g…

If you pay for their enterprise level support for GCP you can get human responses very easily (and quickly on high priority requests) though they tend to have to escalate and complicated issues to their engineering teams. We also have weekly meetings with their CRE team where we can give general input, make feature requests and get support requests/etc expedited as needed. Their support for small customers could use…

Again:

Even if there is real support available, the reputation for a horrible lack of it is so entrenched I don't see how they'll overcome it.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#112

Post by cenal »

lalos wrote: post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

Don’t forget the rapid and severe Google maps price increases. These are the gift that will keep on giving for Microsoft and Amazon in the mindshare of developers and business leaders.

Incredibly stupid move.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#113

Post by matt4077 »

lalos wrote: post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

> every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated

Indeed! Just ~~~last month~~~ 62 months ago they shut down Reader.

(I see that you're hedging with the reference to Maps. But I'd love if this time, we wouldn't make a single event a 10-year talking point)

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#114

Post by outworlder »

partiallypro wrote: post #6
Arqu wrote: post #5

Touching on big G trying to catch up - I've recently had some issues with GCP and while the addition of more accessible support (you can now reach some support person relatively easy) it helps little unless it's a request that they can handle with a single button press. While it now FEELS less frustrating as you have somebody to talk to, it doesn't help that I have an issue that is being ping-ponged around different…

Explain, how it is horrible from a tech perspective? (hint: it's not) Edit: I'm getting downvoted, but no one as of yet has shown how Azure is built on horrible tech compared to its peers. It's just a flat lie, none of the big 3 are built on horrible tech. It's just being dishonest and is basically fanboyism/hatred of one party. You can argue about UI you like or don't (I prefer Azure) you can argue about APIs, their…

> It's just a flat lie

No it is not! Azure is not even in the same ballpark. APIs fail randomly, instances take a random amount of time to come up(sometimes similar to AWS, sometimes double digits) services are poorly integrated, lots of weird constraints and surprising behavior(their load balancers are nonsensical), lack of AZs (and support for them) in many regions, etc.

Can you make your stuff work on Azure? Sure you can. Is that a good experience? No way.

This is probably what people are referring to. The underlying tech may not be horrible, but the user experience is.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#115

Post by jkaplowitz »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #74
jkaplowitz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google also puts a lot of weight in certain nuances that get overlooked and then quickly forgotten in the Internet's memory. Your first example: App Engine price hike happened when App Engine departed preview, not after the service had already been intended for mission-critical production use. Your second example: what they're now calling Google Maps Platform has never been part of Google Cloud Platform, is only rela…

Yeah, that stuff isn't part of Google Cloud Platform . But trust in the stability of products can't be siloed that easily.

With different communication that's harder to misunderstand, it would have been possible for Google to get a much better trust and expectations outcome from exactly the same substantive price changes (at least for GAE and GCP if not Maps).

I think we're mostly or entirely agreeing?

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#116

Post by BallinBige »

cenal wrote: post #112
lalos wrote: post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

Don’t forget the rapid and severe Google maps price increases. These are the gift that will keep on giving for Microsoft and Amazon in the mindshare of developers and business leaders. Incredibly stupid move.

I N C R E D I B L Y stupid move @google

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#117

Post by willismichael »

tabtab wrote: post #108
fludlight wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About seven or eight years ago, I tried to migrate my small employer to Microsoft cloud Exchange (email). I forget what they were calling it back then. We were an Outlook shop so MS seemed like the logical choice. I spent a few days setting everything up and testing it. I flipped the switch and...silence. No incoming email for a few hours in the middle of a Friday night. CEO calls me at 2am asking why our prospective…

It was bleeding edge tech; that happens.

Well, sure it was bleeding edge. That's not the point. Bleeding edge doesn't mean that your support has to be completely broken like this.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#118

Post by matt4077 »

Blunts wrote: post #43

It's astonishing to me that you silicon valley types still don't get, how much of a lead MS have on the compliance front (among others) that makes their cloud platform the only logical choice. In Europe, GCP is almost immediately disregarded, as they have, on multiple occasions, proved they cannot be trusted with your data, and legally required audits will destroy your company if you chose google as your provider(see…

I'm also in Europe, using GCP, know many others who do, and have actually never heard criticism of GCP with regard to data security.

Yes, there are lots of people criticising Google. But for a business using GCP, my impression is that they have been pretty good crossing their t's and dotting their ö's during, for example, the recent introduction of GDPR. They have contracts and model clauses for different scenarios and products. And while I can't judge how good these are, I would assume they will be tested in court pretty quickly.

Long before that, they have reacted well to criticism. For about a decade or so, Analytics has had the option to only collect anonymized IP data, a requirement from a couple of court decisions categorizing IP addresses as PII.

I don't disagree that Google's size alone is reason for scepticism, and to keep an eye on them. But please don't go around claiming to speak for some imaginary European consensus when no such thing exists.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#119

Post by rhexs »

Interesting. Assuming "enterprise" really is that big of a deal in this arena, they had a chance to integrate with Red Hat's customer base and lost it to IBM. I suspect IBM will handily pull into third unless they manage the acquisition like most of their other acquisitions.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#120

Post by vel0city »

twunde wrote: post #103
briffle wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a hard time finding something in Google cloud that is NOT covered by their BAA: https://cloud.google.com/security/compliance/hipaa/#covered-...

That lists 38 hipaa-compliant services. Azure's is close to 80ish hipaa-compliant services. AWS' list is fairly large too. I haven't used GCE in a long time, so maybe GCE just has that many fewer products/services.

One big selling point of GCP vs other cloud providers in regards to HIPAA is that pretty much all of GCP is covered, and probably will in the future:

"GCP’s security practices allow us to have a HIPAA BAA covering GCP’s entire infrastructure, not a set aside portion of our cloud. As a result, you are not restricted to a specific region which has scalability, operational and architectural benefits. You can also benefit from multi-regional service redundancy as well as the ability to use Preemptible VMs to reduce costs.

The security and compliance measures that allow us to support HIPAA compliance are deeply ingrained in our infrastructure, security design, and products. As such, we can offer HIPAA regulated customers the same products at the same pricing that is available to all customers, including sustained use discounts. Other public clouds charge more money for their HIPAA cloud, we do not."

https://cloud.google.com/security/compliance/hipaa/#covered-...

Its been about a year since I last checked out everything you need to be HIPAA compliant to run AWS services, but IIRC it required running dedicated instances for nearly everything. That can make running on AWS way more expensive.

EDIT: Apparently the limitation of dedicated instances was removed in May 2017. https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/hipaa-compliance/

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