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Preparations companies are making for Brexit

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Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#111

Post by pjc50 »

dustinmoris wrote: post #90

I am a European living in the UK and personally I have not even thought for a split second to leave the country because of the referendum. Doesn't matter to which British person I speak to, they are all extremely welcoming and polite. I have never felt unwelcome (even though I have Polish heritage and apparently Polish people are not welcome in the UK - at least if I believe the mainstream news). It's not a very popu…

How is your application for indefinite leave to remain coming along? Do you rent or own your home?

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#112

Post by mrtksn »

dustinmoris wrote: post #90

I am a European living in the UK and personally I have not even thought for a split second to leave the country because of the referendum. Doesn't matter to which British person I speak to, they are all extremely welcoming and polite. I have never felt unwelcome (even though I have Polish heritage and apparently Polish people are not welcome in the UK - at least if I believe the mainstream news). It's not a very popu…

The UK for me was also the least racist environment in Europe, agree. Never felt unwelcome and people genuinely seem to be polite and in good faith.

That said, I don't enjoy my right in the UK being a negotiation chip and that my future business or employment in the UK will no longer be based on my qualifications but on my paperwork I have.

It's quite likely that maybe sometime in 2024 when I apply for a position in a company I would not be considered because they wouldn't like to deal with visas and work permits. Even if I happen to be hired, what happens when I get old or economy stumbles and I need the benefits that native employees enjoy? All these things are now under negotiation and may or may not be provided depending on the deals the politicians negotiate.

I don't like the non-meritocratic system. Maybe it's better to live somewhere where I have equal rights with the locals and sell services to the UK and pay visits to this lovely country. The nicest thing about unregulated professions like those in IT is that you can work anywhere in the world.

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#113

Post by barry0079 »

pjc50 wrote: post #105
atlantic wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that one of the main problems with current politics is the "experts know best" mentality, of which the reduction of political issues to their economic components is one example. Scientists, economists and others should contribute with their specific expertise, but at the end of the day, it should be up to the electorate to make up their minds - which, in the case of Brexit, they did. This faith in technocracy…

Gove: "The British public has had enough of experts" Raab, later: “I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing,” Experts: at this point you might want to consider stockpiling your essential medicines... Come on, this is hacker news . We're all (supposedly) experts. You wouldn't let random membe…

But you would let the product owner do whatever he likes with the code. Does the Government serve the people or should the people serve the nation?

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#114

Post by majewsky »

WA wrote: post #47
diazon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is very important to people who don't have much money. If you are a plumber whose wages are going down and down because the market is being flooded with cheaper Eastern Europeans, you know who to blame. Of course I don't expect HN users who are sitting on a pile of money in SF or London to ever understand this.

Or maybe people who seemingly understood this "simple issue" forgot to see how the economy takes a hit, because of thousands of reasons, the middle class in GB becomes less wealthy and thus has less money to pay for plumbers. And then maybe realize that it's all the same plus a bunch of downsides, but now the cheap Eastern Europeans cannot be blamed anymore.

My experience suggests that people in dire circumstances, regardless of location or time, will always find ways to blame foreigners for it.

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#115

Post by NeedMoreTea »

pjc50 wrote: post #87
tim333 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the brexiters it hasn't in general been about the money. I think most recognised we'd take a hit to gdp but wanted freedom from EU control, less immigration and the like. The remainers have tended to focus on economics which may have been an error.

Dominic Cummings claims that the most effective of the Leave campaigns he was responsible for was the "£350m for the NHS" one.

The one that Farage started backing out of mere hours after the result.

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#116

Post by user5994461 »

keiferski wrote: post #16

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the financial industry the primary reason London has become extremely unaffordable for normal people? Is it possible that the negative economic effects of Brexit will have positive cultural ones, by lowering prices and allowing for more non-financial workers to live there?

London is a capital of the world, like NYC or HKG.

There is a lot of money, you've got all the CEO, head, partners, billionaires and their families to drive price up. When you move closer to the center and the most desirable locations, income are orders of magnitudes above a typical worker.

Then there is all the money laundering and foreign investments to drive prices up everywhere.

Don't get it wrong. London is affordable for normal people with a qualified job, just like NYC, Paris, Hong Kong and every other city in the developed world.

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#117

Post by logifail »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #39
nmeofthestate wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utter rubbish.

Why bother countering a baseless (and bitter and resentful) assertion with an argument? It reminds me of the brexiter voices in England who are furious with Ireland for having the temerity to stand up for what the UK has already agreed on - the NI backstop. It's a chauvinist sense of entitlement and over-confidence that has to some degree led to the brexit mess.

>> for what the UK has already agreed on

Both sides would do well to remember that "Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed." [0]

[0] Press statement by Michel Barnier http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-18-2161_en.ht...

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#118

Post by pjc50 »

barry0079 wrote: post #113
pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gove: "The British public has had enough of experts" Raab, later: “I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing,” Experts: at this point you might want to consider stockpiling your essential medicines... Come on, this is hacker news . We're all (supposedly) experts. You wouldn't let random membe…

But you would let the product owner do whatever he likes with the code. Does the Government serve the people or should the people serve the nation?

At other times on HN we've had the "would you commit a change that you knew would be unsafe, illegal, or even get people killed" discussion. Such as the VW "defeat device". Brexit is another one of those - the worst-case scenarios are extremely bad, and rather than addressing them seriously they get dismissed by the government and Brexiteers.

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#119

Post by nmeofthestate »

logifail wrote: post #117
nmeofthestate wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother countering a baseless (and bitter and resentful) assertion with an argument? It reminds me of the brexiter voices in England who are furious with Ireland for having the temerity to stand up for what the UK has already agreed on - the NI backstop. It's a chauvinist sense of entitlement and over-confidence that has to some degree led to the brexit mess.

>> for what the UK has already agreed on Both sides would do well to remember that "Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed." [0] [0] Press statement by Michel Barnier http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_STATEMENT-18-2161_en.ht...

And currently it looks like we're headed for "nothing is agreed" - No Deal. Nightmare.

Re: Preparations companies are making for Brexit

#120

Post by grey-area »

BjoernKW wrote: post #104
jonathanstrange wrote: post #30

It's sad that the discussion of Brexit and EU-related matters in general always revolve around perceived economic issues. Sure, a healthy economy is important for everyone, but the long-term goals of EU have always been to create a unity of countries with largely shared values to prevent future wars (incl. trade wars and cold wars) and to increase collaboration in all cultural, scientific and social matters. To grow…

Many of the current conflicts within the EU arguably originate from the EU trying to be more than an economic entity. It's true that the EU, and its antecedents the ECSC and the EC, has been a tremendous force for peace on the European continent but make no mistake: It's original intent first and foremost was economic collaboration and prosperity. The impact of international trade, however, goes way beyond mere econo…

This shouldn't be a surprise though - Ever closer union has been the slogan since 1983. The EU has always been more than an economic entity, and is better for it IMO - economic union without political union is unstable and untenable in the longer term (just as one example, people in states like Greece have no effective political power over a brutal fiscal policy which impacts them deeply).

I suspect the intention was always to promote a political and cultural union via economic and fiscal union first, then gradually political union. This is why the Euro project is so misunderstood - in isolation between Nation States it is madness, if viewed as a necessary step to a federal European state it makes lots of sense.

Perhaps a federal state will always have too much concentration of power, however our short experiment with nation states over the last couple of centuries shows they are not a very good alternative IMO, and we'll hopefully find better forms of government (perhaps far more local power over tax/policy down at the county or town level with overarching federal entities for foreign policy and trade).

The nationalism we've seen resurgent across the globe, of which Brexit is a celebration, is the easy answer, but is not the answer we need, and will in my view lead us only to war.

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