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Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

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Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#111

Post by Alex63 »

ehrtt wrote: post #92
geezerjay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an absurd statement, the market is not a god. It does not have a value system. The word "market" is just a convenient tag to refer to a collection of individuals like you and me looking to buy/sell goods and/or services, and deciding what's best for them given the choices available, their priorities, and the information they have. Thus, when anyone refers to what "the market is willing to offer", they are r…

Yeah, but there are two sides to that (voluntary) transaction. The person bidding for labor and the person offering their labor. If the buyer and seller can't agree then the transaction doesn't take place. The value of the labor is subjective.

Yes, and no. The value we place on our own labour is subjective, and the value that a buyer places on our labour is also subjective. You may value your labor at $100/hour, and if no one agrees to pay that price that doesn't mean you are wrong, it just means that there's no market for your labour at that amount.

At the same time, we can say that there is an objective value for labour of a certain type (I'm thinking of commodified labour), which is the going market rate. Just as there is, at any given point in time, an objective value for a share of Apple Computer.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#112

Post by justinator »

ravenstine wrote: post #107
justinator wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing against white men's privilege compared to whom, exactly? Their past selves? I think a lot of the challenges you list apply to most people, and even then white males have a big leg up on most anyone. Times are tough all over. Tougher for those more disenfranchised, already.

I'm not arguing against white men's privilege. And by the way, the term "white men" can be found nowhere in the article or in my comment, and I don't know why you are dragging race into this. And no, I'm not arguing against the privileges of men. I'm criticizing the use of that word, in comparison to the rest of the article, as a covert gendered judgment. Just because men continue to have a "privilege" doesn't mean t…

> I'm not arguing against white men's privilege. And by the way, the term "white men" can be found nowhere in the article or in my comment, and I don't know why you are dragging race into this.

Because in the United States, "black male privilege" isn't a thing. "Male Privilege" = "WHITE Male Privilege"

Do please give examples of the, "benefits of the man's privilege is in decline" when compared to the population in whole. Please do so without seeing this as an adjustment in overall equality.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#113

Post by geezerjay »

divs1210 wrote: post #103
geezerjay wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a capitalistic society, The Market = God. Enough with the puerile poetry. In a capitalist society, the market is people like you and me who like to decide for themselves what's in their own best interests. The market fixes problems because people likeyou and me always find a balance between what they supply and demand, and what trade-offs they are willing to accept. There is no magic or witchcraft.

i look around and see a world struggling with pollution and inequality. Do you have any data/studies backing your claim, or am I supposed to take it all on faith?

> i look around and see a world struggling with pollution and inequality.

Pollution is hardly a problem created by capitalism, and inequality is only a problem in the minds of those who for some reason don't stand the idea of anyone earning more tham them while not giving a damn about those who earn less.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#114

Post by ravenstine »

justinator wrote: post #112
ravenstine wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing against white men's privilege. And by the way, the term "white men" can be found nowhere in the article or in my comment, and I don't know why you are dragging race into this. And no, I'm not arguing against the privileges of men. I'm criticizing the use of that word, in comparison to the rest of the article, as a covert gendered judgment. Just because men continue to have a "privilege" doesn't mean t…

> I'm not arguing against white men's privilege. And by the way, the term "white men" can be found nowhere in the article or in my comment, and I don't know why you are dragging race into this. Because in the United States, "black male privilege" isn't a thing. "Male Privilege" = "WHITE Male Privilege" Do please give examples of the, "benefits of the man's privilege is in decline" when compared to the population in w…

No, because that has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone here is talking about. Everything I wrote previously answers your question, but you're trying to apply racial conflict theory to a phenomenon that doesn't require it. Frankly, I'm not going to spend time explaining why black men have male privilege over black women, as I can hardly believe that you've seriously considered even the most basic of arguments against your overly reductionist and unnecessarily divisive definition of male privilege. This wasn't even specifically about general male privilege, but about the "economically privileged gender."

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#115

Post by peterburkimsher »

ac29 wrote: post #108
peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

I took a look at your resume: it looks like from 2008-2014, you didn't hold any job for more than a few months, which is a bit of a red flag. Were you a student at the time? It doesnt say anywhere what years you were in school. Some jobs specifically say contract work, which explains why they are short, some don't say, which makes it unclear if you were just fired or quit after a short period of time. Your bio also s…

Which of the 3 résumés are you looking at? I graduated in 2011, got some Working Holiday visas, then started a PhD in 2013 but dropped out in 2014. I visited many countries because I don't have a home.

I just spent the last 4 years in Taiwan, proving that I can settle down.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#116

Post by Alex63 »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

I looked at the résumé linked from your profile, too. I agree with ac29, plus the following suggestions:

* Remove all the logos/links. They're not helping the first impression, and they'll almost certainly confuse the systems that are used to scan/store your résumé.

* Take out the reference to military technology in your objective. If you get an interview you can ask them if they do military work and explain your reservations.

* Simplify your work history. Try to make it as sequential as possible, with as few gaps as possible. If you have a lot of work experience that is not directly relevant to the position you are seeking, consider changing the format and just list "Relevant Experience".

* Make your education section simpler. Just list your most advanced degree, or include your Bachelor's degree if it is in another field. Don't show your GPA, but include any academic honours you received while obtaining your degree.

* Remove all the icons on the second page, including the flags.

* Condense your charity work/hobbies/extra-curricular activities to a short list. Do list any directorships you held/hold. Don't list specific job titles unless they directly relate to the position you seek.

* You might consider just saying "References available upon request."

Your résumé comes across as kind of "all purpose". Maybe that's just because it's the one you include in your profile. If you aren't creating a focused résumé for each opportunity, you might want to consider doing that.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#117

Post by eloff »

lazerpants wrote: post #75
jfk13 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I recognise a lot of truth in this, I don't think there's ever been a time when I'd have wanted to date or marry a woman 20 years my junior. I have some lovely friends in that range, but they're socio-culturally so different from me (as a reasonably successful, well-off middle-aged man) that it's hard to see them as partner material.

I think what eloff hits on is a gating problem in the choices that each sex typically makes in eloff's construction of their interactions. Successful women want to marry someone as or more successful, making their pool smaller. Men don't tend to worry as much about marrying someone as or more successful as them, so as you move up the "success" distribution, women have ever fewer choices, and men even more, causing a…

Yes, that's exactly what I'm getting at. Successful women in their mid thirties find themselves with nearly no options (because of their own preferences which are deeply rooted in culture and genetics), while the kind of men they are interested in have all the options in the world. It's really unfair - and I think it's not discussed enough that women who focus on their career first often do it at the expense of having a family. It's very hard to get both as woman - and you choose in your early twenties and find yourself locked into that decision. Men don't have the same problem.

I'm not sure what advice I would give to my future daughters, other than make it clear to them that it's a very important choice they'll have to make.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#118

Post by gwright »

dleslie wrote: post #95
panarky wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key point is that employers have job openings they can't fill [1]. If you are correct that other workers are willing to work that cheap, then the jobs would be filled. Workers exist but are unwilling to work that cheap, so they're idle while employers have unfilled jobs. Whenever you see a news story that says "employers having difficulties finding qualified workers," you can safely replace that phrase with "empl…

Indeed; they're either unwilling to pay the market rate for the labour _or_ they are unwilling to train. Any time an employer states that they cannot find a _suitable_ candidate for a position it is an admission that they are unwilling to train.

I think you are excluding other scenarios:

A business may not be able to pay minimum wage and training costs. The solution there is more qualified people (but they take better paying jobs), lower wage (legally impossible), pass increases on to consumers (higher wages paired with higher costs). Wage increases can't magically be absorbed, especially in service industries with plenty of substitutes. Customers will just disappear.

The best example I can think of is restaurants closing in NYC because the increased wage costs due to increased minimum wage requirements made certain business models unsustainable: http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/16/15-minimum-wage-hike-wre...

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#119

Post by gwright »

ams6110 wrote: post #100
panarky wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key point is that employers have job openings they can't fill [1]. If you are correct that other workers are willing to work that cheap, then the jobs would be filled. Workers exist but are unwilling to work that cheap, so they're idle while employers have unfilled jobs. Whenever you see a news story that says "employers having difficulties finding qualified workers," you can safely replace that phrase with "empl…

Thanks, your clarification is helpful. I think that it's more accurate to say, rather than "employers are unwilling to pay the market rate for labor," that "at the market rate for labor, employers have other options than employing workers." Either they decide that the work is not worth doing at the higher cost, or they have some way to get it done other than directly hiring people to do it (automating, outsourcing, a…

The "other options" category also includes closing because the business is no longer viable given the legal/market constraints.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#120

Post by gwright »

supertrope wrote: post #50
panarky wrote: post #42

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets. If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is worth, then you don't sell it. If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50. So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic actors re…

Cue those who want to cut minimum wage and public assistance so unemployment is even more dire.

From a public policy standpoint, I think it would be better to have people at even a very low rate with public assistance as appropriate than to have people not working at all and dependent 100% on public assistance.

Increasing the minimum wage results in some people getting a higher wage and other people getting $0.

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