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America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

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Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#111
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice idea but would make it impossible, for example, for my kid’s foreign-language school to bring in qualified teachers.[+] It’s difficult already as teachers switch jobs over the summer which over the past couple of decades has been when the supply is already used up. [+] English teachers are recruited from the California system. Unfortunately CA schools are so terrible that if the kids go back to their jobs,enco…

These sorts of "highest salary wins" rules should typically be crafted in an industry/sector-specific way. So schools have to compete with each other on salary but not with tech/finance/med. And then there are caps by sector. The problem with this approach, of course, is that you need a judge/executive who follows the spirit of the law so that I can't get a bunch of cheap tech workers by saying "oh, job ABC in town X…

I'm not sure I agree with this. I work for a university, and I am stunned with how talented and accomplished many post-docs are considering the level of low pay and career uncertainty they continue to face.

The RAND institute, among others, concluded that the reason US citizens have turned away from graduate degrees in the sciences is a rational market response to poor pay and working conditions in favor of fields that offer better salaries and career stability. In short, there is no shortage, just a desire to pay extremely low salaries and establish exploitive working conditions - which you can do when you control someone's right to live and work in the US when these rights are difficult to come by.

Not only do I think that there's no reason to prop up a system that suppresses salaries outside tech/finance/med (or within those fields, that happens too, especially in tech), I think there's real harm in the market distortions these schemes produce.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#112
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice idea but would make it impossible, for example, for my kid’s foreign-language school to bring in qualified teachers.[+] It’s difficult already as teachers switch jobs over the summer which over the past couple of decades has been when the supply is already used up. [+] English teachers are recruited from the California system. Unfortunately CA schools are so terrible that if the kids go back to their jobs,enco…

These sorts of "highest salary wins" rules should typically be crafted in an industry/sector-specific way. So schools have to compete with each other on salary but not with tech/finance/med. And then there are caps by sector. The problem with this approach, of course, is that you need a judge/executive who follows the spirit of the law so that I can't get a bunch of cheap tech workers by saying "oh, job ABC in town X…

I don't think that's worth the overhead. If you end up only importing medical professionals then that's going to help the US economy quite a bit more than importing 'highly skilled' bank tellers.

Money is a very good proxy for demand after all. If company's can easily place people for 350+k jobs that's going to lower the pay of those 350k jobs.

PS: Effectively, your describing a planned economy where someone picks the level of expected pay for each job with more foreign workers available for overpaid jobs.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#113
post #97
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That page references John Boehner and Mitt Romney, who don’t have any influence in Republican policy anymore. The current administration has repeatedly demonstrated their antipathy to legal immigration.

Cite please. The current administration has never done anything to show antipathy to legal immigration, the first lady is a legal immigrant as are her parents.

"Muslim ban" affected the ability for Iranians to immigrate. All of the top engineering/science schools in the U.S. lost an entire cohort of Iranian students this past year.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#114

My intuition is that H1B and similar programs hurt my personal compensation as a domestic provider of skilled labor. My reasoning is that less supply of skilled labor should result in increased cost - which gets paid to me. I understand it's better for the companies and perhaps the economy as a whole to import labor, but it seems worse for me. Is there research on this subject or something I'm missing?

The flaw in your intuition is that it believes there's a fixed demand. It's normal for your intuition to think that way — humans are notoriously bad at analyzing higher-order effects.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#115
post #96
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory it is not very complicated for a H1B to change employer. It simply requires the employer to file a petition to sponsor the H1B. It doesn't count towards the "seats" available yearly, and it's almost guaranteed to be granted. There is a small cost, maybe a few grands. If you think about it, it's way cheaper than paying recruiter fee fo example. In practice you're right though. Most companies have limited exp…

If you intend on applying for a green card you need to stick with the same employer until your I-140 is approved. Just getting there with a single employer can take years, and if you don't have an approved I-140 when your H1B expires your out of luck. Also up until 2017 even if you had an I-140 you would still lose your spot in line if your employer revoked it.

oh man. This chain of responses must be literally on hackernews like a million times. Maybe someone can extract QA site from hackernews comments.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would result in most H1B allocations on east/west coast, where salaries (and cost of living) are relatively higher. I think this is already the case, but enforcing it by salary will result in a wider gap. Companies operating in low "cost of living" areas, will not be able to get skilled workers on H1Bs.

I"m not sure this should be a consideration. If that midwest company cannot compete, it should not exist. That is tghe essence of capitalism. You should not subsidize it by making it not compete fairly for H1B applicants.

It’s a bit of an odd argument to make against a state sanctioned limit to labor that it should be driven by pure capitalism/free market principles.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#117
post #12
post #2

A Harvard business school professor who doesn't want borders as a way to unlock that final piece of mythical economic gain? What a shocker.

The book appears to concern skilled immigration, not eradicating borders. There seem to be an unusual number of people jumping to unfounded conclusions. Immigration is a competitive advantage of the US, and we don't need to attempt to muddy the waters by conflating any degree of immigration with completely unchecked immigration.

I think the reason is some political party deliberately erases the line between legal and illegal immigration, then uses skilled immigration as an argument for causes like open border or illegal immigration, while not fixing the broken immigration policy. This harms the legal immigrants, but paves the way for illegal immigration. Some legal immigrants feel duped because they have jumped through all the hoops in this broken system only to find someone else cut in the line illegally.

That's why many legal immigrants do not necessarily trust the motivation of articles like this. Is this actually proposing a fix of broken immigration system or a veiled propagnda piece to promote illegal immigration?

FWIW, I am a skilled legal immigrant, currently residing in Canada.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#118
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rrggrr is worried companies will say "1 year contract, $10,000 per day first week, $0 per day subsequent 51 weeks" and jump to the top of the stack as they're paying $10,000 per day.

You can require them to pay an average salary over the whole period of employment.

Most employment doesn't have a planned end point though

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#119
post #97
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That page references John Boehner and Mitt Romney, who don’t have any influence in Republican policy anymore. The current administration has repeatedly demonstrated their antipathy to legal immigration.

Cite please. The current administration has never done anything to show antipathy to legal immigration, the first lady is a legal immigrant as are her parents.

[deleted]

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#120
post #97
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That page references John Boehner and Mitt Romney, who don’t have any influence in Republican policy anymore. The current administration has repeatedly demonstrated their antipathy to legal immigration.

Cite please. The current administration has never done anything to show antipathy to legal immigration, the first lady is a legal immigrant as are her parents.

This is a common misunderstanding. Trump has attacked through policy legal immigration far more than illegal immigration.

https://www.afsc.org/blogs/news-and-commentary/trumps-attack...

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