Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#111

Post by noobermin » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:37 AM UTC

Strongerpass wrote: post #62

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

As a pedestrian and cycling advocate, more regulation of cars seems like a good idea for me. That said, the analogy is just that, an analogy so I don't think it's fair to nitpick it.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#112

Post by Strongerpass » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:38 AM UTC

karakot wrote: post #103

Strongerpass wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

if you're on a highway, then a car driving 30mph is much more dangerous than one which is 10mph over speed limit.

That's kind of moot, at least where I live. Less than 3% of deaths were caused by this so its not really significant. Pedestrians killed were many times higher for example.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#113

Post by noobermin » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:41 AM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #107

stonecraftwolf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because constant surveillance of a targeted group will be systematically abused. And because next is using facial recognition to monitor other groups — LGBT, activists, political opponents. That is extremely frightening coming from an administration that is increasingly using violent and elimitionist language to levy completely made up charges at immigrants, LGBT, and particularly political opponents.

Also, because false positives dont matter when it affects "other people"

If this technology is worse than ICE agents indiscriminately asking latinx people for their papers then it adds no value. The hope is it is better at identifying people.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#114

Post by profalseidol » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:43 AM UTC

tinktank wrote: post #2

It's just another use-case for them I suppose. Interesting to see how, as tech companies become bigger, they go the same way as companies in all the other industries. I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed.

Horray for Free market!

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#115

Post by ozgurozkan » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #44

ozgurozkan wrote: post #33

Don’t Worry!!! Face recog startup founder here. Amazon’s tech only allows them to monitor a specific people list in real time. So search period should be limited. Otherwise it’s so expensive to do that. It only tracks for specific target list on real time cameras or photos. When it comes to searching on archives Amazon is so expensive to do it. As Reminisce Inc we are a photo delivery company. We have a face search t…

> However we use our tech only to deliver souvenir photography to event attendees. We will not sell it to government. Do you have a warrant canary or similar in place? How hard is it to defeat the "live face" thing and get your system to search for someone else using a photo or something? Could I use a video of someone I want to track? I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Your service and tech looks awesome if you…

We are based in Turkey for now. Our database is full of public event photos. Surveillance in Istanbul is not good enough to make a good face recog search. We are too fresh and young for a warrant canary.

There is too many face spoofing prevention techniques. We are actively testing one right now.(Currently on A/B test) Especially after iPhone X which brings depth camera someone should replicate your face in 3D to make a face spoof. More info about face spoofing techniques: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1710.09868.pdf

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#116

Post by fzeroracer » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:52 AM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #104

fzeroracer wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not. The comment I directly replied to was asking for a crime where you can take your children with you when you're arrested. We've already established the fact the system is massively stacked against minorities. Then we continue to use 'but it's a crime!' as justification for vile and malicious behavior to people that have committed something without an actual victim like smoking marijuana or crossing the b…

I'm only commenting on your affluenza comparison specifically. Here's an example of why I think the comparison is meaningless. Grand theft can be charged as a misdemeanor with up to a two year jail sentence. But Brock Turner was sentenced to only six months of jail time for rape. Do you think grand theft is worse than rape? Of course not, but the problem here is the Brock Turner sentence, not the sentencing for grand…

And yet you failed to address my point entirely. Which is that far worse crimes in the US end up with more lenient sentencing than immigrants crossing the border.

But fine then, I want to draw up a more apt comparison and I want you to address this. Public intoxication is a misdemeanor similar to crossing the border illegally. How often do you think people caught being publicly intoxicated end up losing custody of their children or being permanently separated from their family?

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#117

Post by r00fus » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:54 AM UTC

makewavesnotwar wrote: post #41

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

This comment Rings like a bell.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#118

Post by Strongerpass » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #87

Strongerpass wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

You might be factually correct, but you are misunderstanding the point of the parent poster. What makewavesnotwar is saying is simply that making exaggerated arguments for this technology in the name of making us safer is not a sufficient reason to introduce the technology. Perhaps if they had used larger numbers like 50 MPH relative to 60MPH that point would have been made clearer.

I understood the point well and I agreed with the poster. But in my view, if you are going to argue that we don't need more automated monitoring in traffic then claiming that speed has little impact on fatalities seems quite weird.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#119

Post by Strongerpass » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 4:58 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #111

Strongerpass wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

As a pedestrian and cycling advocate, more regulation of cars seems like a good idea for me. That said, the analogy is just that, an analogy so I don't think it's fair to nitpick it.

> A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that.

What was this an analogy for? I missed it.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#120

Post by karakot » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:19 AM UTC

Strongerpass wrote: post #112

karakot wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're on a highway, then a car driving 30mph is much more dangerous than one which is 10mph over speed limit.

That's kind of moot, at least where I live. Less than 3% of deaths were caused by this so its not really significant. Pedestrians killed were many times higher for example.

It really depends. In the US pedestrians account ~10% of total number of traffic related deaths.