Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#111

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:28 PM UTC

dmortin wrote: post #97

bliblah wrote: post #61

Nothing lasts forever. Plain and simple. I really dislike TV/Anime that never ends, seems to be the modus operandi for pretty much every mainstream show despite how bad the quality gets after 2-3 seasons. Simpsons is a great showcase of the homogenization that every sitcom will go through given enough time. It starts out as a comedy with some wholesome family moments to bring it together but eventually every characte…

> I really dislike TV/Anime that never ends, seems to be the modus operandi for pretty much every mainstream show despite how bad the quality gets after 2-3 seasons. Isn't this an American thing where TV/movie things are primarily for money making? I mean the British Office had 2 seasons and 12 episodes. The US version had 9 seasons and 200 episodes. I didn't watch The Office, so I don't know if the US version got wo…

The American "The Office" ran about 2 seasons past its sell-by date. Losing Steve Carrel was the point when the show should have ended. There were certainly good episodes after his departure, because he was far from the only thing that made the show good, but we often say, when watching Seasons 8 and 9, "When did this show become a cartoon?"

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#112

Post by Bartweiss » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

stupidbird wrote: post #24

There are a lot of shifts that changed The Simpsons, but the biggest one for me was the shift to being almost constantly satirical. Classic Simpsons would occasionally get a bit satirical or referential (like when Bush Sr made a guest appearance), but modern Simpsons seems more satirical than not. Episodes like the one featuring the "MyPod" with "Steve Mobs" basically had my eyes rolling into the back of my head. Tha…

This is a really interesting point.

I think there's some truth to the claim that Family Guy cut in on the "cartoon family relationships" and "cartoon family slapstick" markets, but I'd never quite grasped why the attempt to branch out failed so badly. Now that you point it out, Family Guy even did politics and current events (or at least picked at South Park's scraps), but it never really went in for the sort of quieter, knowing satire you see in The Onion.

That was something the Simpsons had gotten huge acclaim for (e.g. "Marge Vs The Monorail", "Last Exit to Springfield"), so it was an obvious place to look for a niche. But that's also really hard to maintain. The Onion itself has always had a lot of mediocre content, but that doesn't need to animate it's content and doesn't ask you to stare at one bit for 30 minutes straight. Heck, SNL has one of the best comedy writing teams anywhere and it has some seriously weak moments that need to be offset with celebrity guests, music, and rapid sketch changes.

The other thing that strikes me is that the near-realism of the Simpsons constrains the satire. Futurama's take on the 'eyePod' was hilarious, but the reason it worked so much better than the 'myPod' was that the sci-fi setting let them take the topic ludicrously far. "You Only Move Twice" (the supervillain Simpson's episode) was excellent and arguably satire, but it was also at the upper edge of how wacky the Simpson's universe ever gets. By Season Eight or so, it feels like The Simpsons had done a first-rate episode on almost every piece of small-town and nuclear-family life worth parodying, and couldn't break out of their constrained focus or their realistic setting far enough to find new fertile ground. Meanwhile, Futurama got to play around with Nixon and Mom's Friendly Robots and alien invaders and anything else that came to mind - plus with no one else in the sci-fi cartoon space they could save the satire for when they had something excellent to do.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#113

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:30 PM UTC

utopcell wrote: post #76

bliblah wrote: post #61

Nothing lasts forever. Plain and simple. I really dislike TV/Anime that never ends, seems to be the modus operandi for pretty much every mainstream show despite how bad the quality gets after 2-3 seasons. Simpsons is a great showcase of the homogenization that every sitcom will go through given enough time. It starts out as a comedy with some wholesome family moments to bring it together but eventually every characte…

Star Trek TNG summed it up best on its last episode: ``[..] you had such potential, but then again, all good things must come to and end'' [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-olnnGBJQV4

Tat was a show that did a pretty good job of not overstaying its welcome. Seasons 6 and 7 weren't as strong as the previous seasons, but the show was still good. Ending when they did was a good idea, even though we fans were sad to see it go.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#114

Post by monetus » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

delecti wrote: post #109

monetus wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not British, but it is very much a Japanese tendecy, ime. If I see a good anime/comic, I try to appreciate what I saw and expect no resolution. I'm curious how often they even have resolution in the outline.

Every year has a slew of animes which wrap up in 13 or 26 episodes. A sparse few go to 52. An even sparser few fit the mold you describe, but even many of those end eventually with a planned conclusion (Bleach and Dragon Ball ).

Sorry, I wasn't speaking in absolutes. I'm not a pollster or statistician, so I was relaying my anecdote. I think your comment's sibling, and one of mine, elucidate why I have that anecdote.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#115

Post by pitaj » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

bradleyankrom wrote: post #62

stupidbird wrote: post #24

There are a lot of shifts that changed The Simpsons, but the biggest one for me was the shift to being almost constantly satirical. Classic Simpsons would occasionally get a bit satirical or referential (like when Bush Sr made a guest appearance), but modern Simpsons seems more satirical than not. Episodes like the one featuring the "MyPod" with "Steve Mobs" basically had my eyes rolling into the back of my head. Tha…

> Classic Simpsons would occasionally get a bit satirical or referential (like when Bush Sr made a guest appearance), but modern Simpsons seems more satirical than not. Episodes like the one featuring the "MyPod" with "Steve Mobs" basically had my eyes rolling into the back of my head. That's such low-hanging fruit that they're picking it up off the ground. It's not even good enough to be considered sophomoric. And t…

> And the Futurama take on this was just as bad

At least with Futurama, Mom was an established character and they were able to comment on other internet culture like Twitter.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#116

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

iopq wrote: post #100

nathcun wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your wording here suggests that the later episodes were simply rated lower because they were later. However, I think your point is that the later episodes got worse ratings for something beyond the writers. Certainly possible. Even if nothing else changed, it must be much more difficult to write a fresh, funny episode when 200+ episodes have already been done. There were also external factors which might have driven…

I mean, you could just have producers forcing you to do something that's not good, like celebrity cameos and other stupid things.

It was the style of celebrity cameos that made things worse. In recent years, the cameos served more to showcase the celebrity, in ways that didn't contribute to the show, rather that utilizing the talents of the celebrity to make a good show, like they did in the past.

You only need to look at the Lady Gaga episode, the worst-rated episode by far (and for good reason) and compare it to any cameo in the first 9 seasons, and a good number of cameos in the next 10.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#117

Post by stupidbird » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #112

stupidbird wrote: post #24

There are a lot of shifts that changed The Simpsons, but the biggest one for me was the shift to being almost constantly satirical. Classic Simpsons would occasionally get a bit satirical or referential (like when Bush Sr made a guest appearance), but modern Simpsons seems more satirical than not. Episodes like the one featuring the "MyPod" with "Steve Mobs" basically had my eyes rolling into the back of my head. Tha…

This is a really interesting point. I think there's some truth to the claim that Family Guy cut in on the "cartoon family relationships" and "cartoon family slapstick" markets, but I'd never quite grasped why the attempt to branch out failed so badly. Now that you point it out, Family Guy even did politics and current events (or at least picked at South Park's scraps), but it never really went in for the sort of quie…

Exactly! The 'eyePod' comparison is really good. I haven't thought of that before but it's spot on.

Ultimately, yeah, they probably ran out of possible new material (they even joked about doing the same themes across multiple episodes within episodes).

I think it would have been better off cancelled once Season 10 rolled around.

They could be doing the show they do now with different characters entirely, and they'd probably have a more accurate sense of quality that's not clouded with nostalgia.

It's no surprise that FOX doesn't understand going out on a high note though. I admittedly probably hung around until season 20 just because of the previous 10 seasons of goodwill.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#118

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

jplayer01 wrote: post #13

duxup wrote: post #8

Whenever we talk about Simpsons decline it always occurs to me that even in decline... the Simpsons is still pretty good. Perhaps that says more about its high points than the "decline".

I think the decline is largely bullshit nostalgia. I still watch Simpsons and I still think it's great.

I've been watching "The Simpsons" since season 1 and I think the decline described here is absolutely correct. The show is a zombie version of itself, but I still watch it.

I'd say there are usually about 4 really good shows per season. Most of them are pretty forgettable, and none of them are as funny as the show was 25 years ago.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#119

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

poisonarena wrote: post #73

jplayer01 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the decline is largely bullshit nostalgia. I still watch Simpsons and I still think it's great.

This is wrong based off the wealth of Simpsons Instagram Meme accounts there are.. I am talking thousands of memes... Zero of them based off content past season 9 .. Why is that?

Because most people who saw the first 9 seasons over and over and over, thanks to syndication and DVDs, etc., haven't seen the seasons past 9 nearly as much. That's certainly true for me. I haven't seen most episodes in the past 5 years more than once or twice.

Also, the first 9 seasons were just that much better.

Re: Why did the golden age of the Simpsons end?

#120

Post by josefresco » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

afterburner wrote: post #82

josefresco wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put the "blame" on this shift onto successful, adult cartoons like South Park and Family Guy which took satire and 'offensive comedy" to a new level. Suddenly The Simpsons seemed old, slow and out of touch compared to the new generation. The downside to all this satire (I've only realized recently), is that younger audiences (and even older folks) don't always recognize it, and take the jokes too literally. I…

Forget younger audiences. I was hearing people at work parrot the "both sides" BS from South Park directly.

To be fair/accurate, the South Park generation (myself included) is no longer "young".

South Park is great if everyone is in on the joke. They tend to make fun of BOTH sides of every issue, showing the insanity and hypocrisy along the way. A smart person realizes what is right and wrong. The danger of this are those who "don't get it" and think being a giant asshole is funny/cool.

The same thing applies to Howard Stern fans. Part of his audience understands satire, and realizes the absurdity of the humor. The other part, thinks racist/sexist/offensive jokes are just hilarious.