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How the Finnish survive without small talk

bbc.com

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Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#111

Post by flurdy »

Norwegian living in the UK. I remember my dad when he moved over here just found the whole initial greetings and small talk with his UK colleagues really funny. And even funnier to watch his mostly Swedish colleagues struggle with the same tennis ball banter at the start of every conversation. Instead of just getting to the point straight away.

I was young enough to adapt quickly, but still I struggle with insincere greetings such as in some shops here now have US style greeters at the door. Find it hard to respond to their "Hi/Welcome/How are you" as I know they do not want a conversation, so why interfere with my personal space...

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#112

Post by [deleted] »

PeterStuer wrote: post #86

I love Finland. I love Oulu. But, come on, there isn't just the 1 type of Finn. And even the "silent' type (which I prefer) is very warm and outgoing when given space, sincerity and calm. In fact, I found getting into a decent conversation and a good night out as a stranger in Finland is way easier than in may other places.

[deleted]

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#113

Post by dragonwriter »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #25

It is strange that this article sees Finland as an odd man out in terms of customer-service interactions, and it suggests the USA or the UK is the norm. I have lived in both southern Europe (where people are claimed to be more extrovert) and in Finland, and generally interacting with a "barista" or cashier in both places is exactly the same, consisting of only the words "Hello" and "Thanks". In the USA one might get…

> It is strange that this article sees Finland as an odd man out in terms of customer-service interactions, and it suggests the USA or the UK is the norm

It's not really odd at all that an article that is part of a BBC Travel series treats the UK as the baseline norm.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#114

Post by Bartweiss »

SilasX wrote: post #99

Random thought: I can't find it, so how do they translate the intro to Return of the Jedi? Moff Jerjerrod: Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence. Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule. Is Jerjerrod's line something they wouldn't say? Would it be confusing that someone would need to tell someone to skip the pleasantri…

I'm curious whether this would actually be odd for Finns?

Jerjerrod's line is phatic, but I think it's less small talk than deference or avoidance. The message is something like "I'm surprised and concerned someone with your status is involved in my work, please don't hurt me", which seems fairly universal.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#115

Post by Bartweiss »

farrisbris wrote: post #109
SilasX wrote: post #99

Random thought: I can't find it, so how do they translate the intro to Return of the Jedi? Moff Jerjerrod: Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence. Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule. Is Jerjerrod's line something they wouldn't say? Would it be confusing that someone would need to tell someone to skip the pleasantri…

Can't remember either, but your recollection is close to what mine is. But given that Moff knows who/what Darth Vader is it is not supprising that he takes a subservient stance when talking to him. Kind of the same way i'm very careful around american cops. I would never address a norwegian cop by sir, but i don't even think twice before using sir/mam when talking to a us cop. But in these cases its fear. It has noth…

This makes sense - I'd assume "I know my place, don't hurt me" is a sentiment that arises in basically any culture as long as somebody involved has lots of power and no accountability.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#116

Post by swampthing »

throwaway487548 wrote: post #3

Oh, come on. Most parts of Asia have no notion of a small talk, moreover, it is considered impolite and sometimes even silly. Only almost formal, exceedingly polite and necessary conversations are part of the social norm, and you see, it is OK for a few billions or so.

I don't know what countries you were referring to, but that's definitely not the case in China (home to a few billions).

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#117

Post by koevet »

I'm married to a Finn woman and I have lived in Helsinki for about 3 years.

The lack of small talk is the norm in Finland, and, as a south-european, it takes a while to get used to.

The article doesn't mention that there is a noticeable difference between boys and girls though. My experience is that girls are much more willing to engage in small talk in social situations.

Men, including colleagues, can be really difficult to crack. Some men really open up only when alcol is involved - another aspect of Finnish society that the article overlooked.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#118

Post by klodolph »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #25

It is strange that this article sees Finland as an odd man out in terms of customer-service interactions, and it suggests the USA or the UK is the norm. I have lived in both southern Europe (where people are claimed to be more extrovert) and in Finland, and generally interacting with a "barista" or cashier in both places is exactly the same, consisting of only the words "Hello" and "Thanks". In the USA one might get…

Some things are universal but a shopkeeper making smalltalk is not creepy in the US, even if it is in other countries. It's a cultural thing.

One of the benefits of smalltalk in shops is that if you have a question you don't have to interrupt anybody. You're already having a conversation with a clerk so you might as well ask a question about the merchandise. I don't have to get anybody's attention. I'm not advocating for small talk here but merely trying to explain that it is not without benefits.

The idea that smalltalk is "feigned" doesn't make sense to me, I'm not sure how that word could be applied here. To give some context, in the US there are definitely two different types of smiles. One type of smile expresses happiness and another type of smile is used for polite social interactions. These expressions don't look similar and you wouldn't confuse the two, at least instinctually. Your instinctual response to a polite smile (amygdala) will recognize that it does not express happiness, but if your higher thought processes (visual cortex) think it expresses happiness then the mismatch will make you feel uneasy. If you think of the polite smile as feigned happiness, it seems insincere, but it is not feigned happiness... it is sincere politeness. If you are from a culture that does not smile to strangers it will naturally seem insincere to you unless you get used to it.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#120

Post by Bartweiss »

dingaling wrote: post #65
illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

How do Finns flirt without smalltalk? Just jump straight to 'do you find me attractive?' and 'do you want to date?' Though admittedly I used to work with an Irish guy whose sole chat-up line was 'are ye ridin?' and who had considerable success.

On a related note, what happens at parties where lots of people don't know each other? (Assuming that happens at all.)

As much as smalltalk is unneeded in everyday life, having a script that brings out some general background ("so what do you do?", "are you from around here?", "how do you know {host}?") does help when strangers are looking for common ground where they can talk more deeply.

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