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The Little Typer

mitpress.mit.edu

111–120 of 138 posts

Re: The Little Typer

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this victimless? I write a book, put it out on the market. Someone copies it and puts it up on a website (crime alert). Someone like you publicises it. I don't get paid because from your point of view, it is out there free for the taking. Meanwhile, I have lost hundreds or thousands of potential sales from people who may have paid, but have now been tempted to join your illegal caper. Everyone revels in the ve…

So many assumptions are embedded in your comment. Firstly, it's not proven that piracy affects sales. Quite the opposite: it usually raises popularity for an item, because – if it's good – people sing its praises, which leads to more sales. You didn't respond to my actual comment. Again, it is victimless because no one would've bought the overpriced book except for those who have $40 to throw away on a lark. If we fo…

"Riddle me this: Why did people write books before there was an economic incentive for them to? The crux of our disagreement appears to be this: it wouldn't hurt the world for us to return to those times."

In the middle ages, books were written by the elites, for the elites. Necessarily so, because education itself was an elite activity. You want a return to those times?

"Are you so sure your book would have maid those thousands of dollars in an era before it was possible to widely distribute it? Who would buy it? And moreover, who would hear about it and how?"

Surely you don't mean to say that a product would never be heard of if there weren't the means to copy it. Surely you don't go into a theatre and livestream a play or concert or standup, because the poor "victims" outside wouldn't have a chance to be enriched. If broadway is expensive, go elsewhere for your entertainment. You don't have the right to give away or consume someone else's work just because technology brings the cost of watching it down to zero.

This is the last I am going to say about this argument. I'm quite done.

Re: The Little Typer

#112
post #93
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there’s so much to say about this comment, that I don’t even know where to start. So firstly I agree, $40 seems like a lot. I personally couldn’t justify it at the moment. Particularly when the reproduction cost is nearly zero. But $40 also doesn’t seem like a lot to pay for a book that will probably not sell more than a few thousand copies. Most likely revenue generated won’t fully cover the time and eff…

I would like to see more publicly funded, freely available educational material out there, but it seems worth pointing out that MIT is a private university.

It is, but the research that happens there is still funded in large part by public grants.

Re: The Little Typer

#113
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nobody ever writes the book about a language/paradigm's downsides Indeed. One can argue that books like "optimizing X" or "secure X" are about ways to easily write slow or insecure code in X, but this is somewhat narrow. Is there never enough demand for a broader book on downsides of X?

Bertrand Meyer's book on Eiffel was all about the downsides of C++. And then there's the Unix-Hater's Handbook... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unix-Haters_Handbook I wrote a whole chapter about the downsides of X -- do you think there's a need for a broader book? ;) https://medium.com/@donhopkins/the-x-windows-disaster-128d39...

> I wrote a whole chapter about the downsides of X

I lol'ed 6-8 times... Still, I have to say that I'm loving my distros lately; distro maintainers, you rule!

Some typos in the article:

eents/events client an/client can because it the/because it solved? the tires/tries ore dump/core dump trwe/tree piel/pixel resulution/resolution ertain/certain N ot/Not screens een have/screens have

Re: The Little Typer

#114
post #2

I'm going to order it right now. I highly recommend the little schemer and the seasoned schemer too! I have read all the titles (MLer and Java too) in the series and those are my favorites. The only one I have not finished is the reasoned schemer although I hope to try again in the future.

I am just now (as of reading your comment) becoming aware of the "Little" series. Is there a particular order in which one should read the books?

Re: The Little Typer

#115

The book is fantastic. If you think this model is interesting, please consider trying Idris and reading the Idris book: https://www.manning.com/books/type-driven-development-with-i...

I learned a bit of Idris on the book you link, but I gave up after trying to implement Quicksort (the classical Haskell one-liner) in Idris vectors. You need to manually write a page of theorems for Idris to accept it. It's crazy.

So don't write quicksort in Idris. It's not going to work very well anyways. It's not at all well-suited, and isn't really even an especially important sorting algorithm in a world where linear time sorting and constant time indexed searches are a thing.

But most of the work you'd be doing to write quicksort is writing the machinery for structurally recursive sorting, which a lot of tutorials write not because you have to, but because it's a very good exercise for learning how to write total functions that are recursive in a way DT systems can prove totality on.

Most of these tools are in the contrib library (and the book mentions this). For example the preorder interface you need:

https://github.com/idris-lang/Idris-dev/blob/master/libs/con...

Re: The Little Typer

#116
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a quick guide to avoiding them: "Unless you are using Haskell at a very high level of abstraction, Coq, Agda, Pie or Idris: congratulations you have avoided them." It's not really clear why you'd want a book about the downsides of a quite recent development in practically usable programming models. Is it just because you are a hater?

My guess is because OP has been burned by the "LEARN THIS NEW THING, IT'S REALLY COOL AND POWERFUL AND ALL OF THE COOL KIDS ARE DOING IT (and oh by the way many of the simple things you do all the time are incredibly inconvenient...)" narrative one too many times. Adopting something purely on it's merits is a bad idea, but nobody ever writes the book about a language/paradigm's downsides. I'm pretty sure that was the…

It's not even really possible to "adopt" dependent typing today. It's only emerged from the realm of academic curiosity and only two implementations exist that are anywhere near "practical" in the context you're describing.

Both of those implementations are very honest about their shortcomings, and nearly every talk and blogpost for them mentions you can't yet use this in many industrial contexts.

It's very difficult to see this as anything but the usual distate for PL theory that constantly swirls around this community. If the author didn't intend to associate a post with that, then they've done it by accident.

Re: The Little Typer

#117
post #18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is because OP has been burned by the "LEARN THIS NEW THING, IT'S REALLY COOL AND POWERFUL AND ALL OF THE COOL KIDS ARE DOING IT (and oh by the way many of the simple things you do all the time are incredibly inconvenient...)" narrative one too many times. Adopting something purely on it's merits is a bad idea, but nobody ever writes the book about a language/paradigm's downsides. I'm pretty sure that was the…

nobody ever writes the book about a language/paradigm's downsides Indeed. One can argue that books like "optimizing X" or "secure X" are about ways to easily write slow or insecure code in X, but this is somewhat narrow. Is there never enough demand for a broader book on downsides of X?

There are tons, but we really need to ask if any of this is a fair topic for Dependent Typing, which has only emerged from pi-calculus musings on paper to compilers that can do more than prove simple structural recursion.

It's like seeing a photo of a baby and asking why there isn't a service to provide police records for babies, because you "just want to be careful, you know?"

Re: The Little Typer

#118

Is there a reason dependent types are not more common?

Try to write the classic Haskell Quicksort in Idris: qsort :: Ord a => [a] -> [a] qsort [] = [] qsort (p:xs) = qsort (filter ( = p) xs) and let me know how it goes, if you will. That's when I gave up on Idris.

This one liner isn't really quicksort anyway.

Re: The Little Typer

#119
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one where you demonstrated that you don't know the difference between a client and a server? :-)

How's it "not knowing the difference" to explain that the usage of the terms client and server switched over time, in the sense of which is local and which is remote? An xterm client running on a VAX mainframe connects to an X11 server running on a Sun workstation: the X11 client is remote, the X11 server is local. A web browser client running on a phone connects to a web server running in the cloud: the web client i…

Loled. I used to do phone support for x11 servers for pcs. This terminology confused people to no end

Re: The Little Typer

#120
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one where you demonstrated that you don't know the difference between a client and a server? :-)

How's it "not knowing the difference" to explain that the usage of the terms client and server switched over time, in the sense of which is local and which is remote? An xterm client running on a VAX mainframe connects to an X11 server running on a Sun workstation: the X11 client is remote, the X11 server is local. A web browser client running on a phone connects to a web server running in the cloud: the web client i…

Exactly! I, too, used to live in an office next to a machine room full of "web clients"! :-D

(Actually, I'm one of those deluded fools who claim a "server" provides a "service" to one or more "clients", who make "requests". Yeah, I know, but I figure somebody has to keep the joke funny.)

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