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Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

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Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#111

Post by pbhjpbhj »

craftyguy wrote: post #23
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a silly way to value Wikipedia IMO. Fire is useful, so everyone who uses fire should pay a company some money? No, that's clearly mad. No matter how useful it is if it's poorly optimised or over costly then we should do better, not settle because it's already a great RoI.

Your analogy is silly. Fire is free to make (discounting the extremely little time/effort to make it). Hosting an online encyclopedia with low latency, moderation, etc is not.

Fire costs resources and produces costly environmental impacts, in many of the ways we make it it's an engineering marvel (ICE for example), but yeah it's not the greatest analogy.

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#112

Post by anoifeh »

bahamut1928 wrote: post #86
qubax wrote: post #32

What's with all the comments supporting censorship all of sudden? Every social media site now has hordes of "people" defending censorship. Is it just more european users on social media now? Or is it just government funded trolling? I just don't get it. Saudi arabia just declared online satire as a cybercrime punishable up to 5 years in prison. https://www.france24.com/en/20180904-saudi-arabia-declares-o... We know h…

Please understand that for many of us in the EU, freedom of speech as understood and implemented by Americans is not something desirable. Based solely on my personal experience, most of the people are actually happy on how censorship is handled by our institutions. I've never felt restricted in expressing my opinion in whichever topic we are discussing, and I am actually happy that people preaching racist ideologies…

>I've never felt restricted in expressing my opinion in whichever topic we are discussing

Of course, if you belong to a mainstream ideology...

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#113

Post by intended »

tincholio wrote: post #97
intended wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not harsh. Although I disagree with his solution- we need copy right, but copy-rights have been terrible for us. However - Have people (on HN) forgotten how the content companies enforce copy right ? The RiAa/MPAA? Copy rights were to help creators earn return on their creation. Today copy rights extend far beyond the natural life of the creator and are constantly being extended to favor corporations/owners, at…

> Packet sniffing was created for the AAs I'm pretty sure tcpdump predates Napster and any involvement of the AAs in the workings of the Internet...

Nope - as I recall that was the ISPs defense “we don’t know what people are sharing since we can’t look into packets”

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#115

Post by blackbrokkoli »

colemannugent wrote: post #80
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly curious what definition of "free" you're using here? Are you saying that anything moving away from uncontrolled anarchy is cutting away freedom and we therefore shouldn't do that? The government forbids you to make a company spying in people bathrooms and sell the pictures, would you say that's interference in your free life as well?

I don't want to put words in openbasic's mouth, but here I go anyway: > what definition of "free" you're using here Free as in relatively unencumbered by government regulation. I think it's fair to say based off his "GDPR was just the first step" comment that he views increased government control of the internet as the axis along which the freedom he is referring to is measured. > Are you saying that anything moving…

Ah, I think your comment made clear to me where my confusion stems from.

I think the problem is that there are actually two meanings for "free" used in this discussion, right?

One is "free" as a positive descriptor of a good society, comparable with words like "equal" etc.

The second one is more like ..."technical" freedom maybe? Total anarchy would be the state of maximum freedom by this definition.

Most people probably desire maximal freedom by the first definition but not the second. And to achieve the first kind (free to live my life like I want for example) the government or some other instance has to cut away freedom from the second definition (forbiding me to prevent other people too live their way, using the same example). So the discussion should rather focus on how much the government shall cut off the second king, because speaking of freedom as a onedimensional scale is obviously confusing - do you agree with that?

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#116

Post by mrep »

lovich wrote: post #96
nnash wrote: post #42

Can we just agree to silo off the EU? Why should foreign companies have to comply with these policies anyway? GDPR compliance has already had a negative impact on web UX.

Welcome to what the rest of the world has been experiencing under the US hegemony for the past 3 decades. Since we are not all operating under the same authority, and so we don't have anyone to appeal to for a final answer when we disagree, relations between nation's and their companies have been a matter of practicality rather than ethics. If you can silo off the EU feel free, but most companies won't voluntarily gi…

> If you can silo off the EU feel free, but most companies won't voluntarily give up access to the largest economy in the known universe

What metric are you using because wikipedia disagrees with you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#117

Post by lovich »

mrep wrote: post #116
lovich wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to what the rest of the world has been experiencing under the US hegemony for the past 3 decades. Since we are not all operating under the same authority, and so we don't have anyone to appeal to for a final answer when we disagree, relations between nation's and their companies have been a matter of practicality rather than ethics. If you can silo off the EU feel free, but most companies won't voluntarily gi…

> If you can silo off the EU feel free, but most companies won't voluntarily give up access to the largest economy in the known universe What metric are you using because wikipedia disagrees with you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

I was going off articles like https://www.businessinsider.com/charts-eu-economy-is-bigger-...

However, when I was just looking it up now to find evidence for you I found various sources saying the US, China, or the EU was the largest so now I am not sure

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#118

Post by lovich »

dexen wrote: post #106
lovich wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think copyright reform has come about the same way GPDR has. Large tech corporations have been ignoring the concerns of governments, steamrolling those governments citizens, and then when given a few choices on how to act the companies argue out of both sides of their mouth. In this case corporations like Facebook, Google, et al have stated that they are platforms and can't be responsible for what people post on th…

> Large tech corporations have been ignoring the concerns of governments, steamrolling those governments citizens Quite the opposite; in case of copyright expansion the large companies you mention are the copyright holders, which are about to be given governmental mandate to steamroll over the citizens even more. Quite the opposite of GDPR which went to protect the interests of individual citizens.

The large companies can both benefit from copyright protections while ignoring other companies and individuals copyrights. A magazine that keep putting in copyrighted novels would get sued. Somehow when google let's people upload movies to YouTube and remove it after it has already been uploaded, it's alright because they don't want to pay for employees to pre screen uploads.

That was fine when they we're dumb platforms, but when they started picking and choosing what content was allowed based on their own interests they really gutted any sort of claim to just being a platform

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#119

Post by nnash »

andybak wrote: post #60
nnash wrote: post #42

Can we just agree to silo off the EU? Why should foreign companies have to comply with these policies anyway? GDPR compliance has already had a negative impact on web UX.

"We"? Who are you addressing? Some of us are currently in the EU.

>Who are you addressing? Some of us are currently in the EU.

The one country largely responsible for the invention of the internet.

Re: Wikimedia warns EU copyright reform threatens the ‘vibrant free web’

#120

Post by andybak »

nnash wrote: post #119
andybak wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We"? Who are you addressing? Some of us are currently in the EU.

>Who are you addressing? Some of us are currently in the EU. The one country largely responsible for the invention of the internet.

Forgive me. I didn't realise I was intruding on a private conversation.
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