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Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

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Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#111

Post by sizzzzlerz »

maxerickson wrote: post #69
ryandrake wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we also tax people living in earthquake-prone and tornado-prone areas? How about blizzard-prone areas? Keep going with this and we will run out of places (in the USA) where it’s ok to live. Also, as someone who lived in south Florida, flood insurance is a joke and unavailable near the coast anyway. Nobody expects it to pay out enough in a major catastrophe, including hurricanes and flooding.

Private insurance works for earthquakes and tornadoes.

Until a massive quake wipes out an entire region, at which point, the insurance carriers declare bankruptcy because they won't be able to pay off all the policies. And that is already factoring in the exorbitant premiums being paid and high deductibles on the policies.

With tens of thousands of claims, home owners will get pennies on the dollar if they get anything at all.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#112

Post by heartbreak »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #106

There are technical solutions to all of this. I come from a country that has been fighting back the sea for centuries (Netherlands) and that has been exporting it's knowledge to do so for a long time as well. The basic consensus is that we'll need bigger dikes and a few other things over the next decades. Plenty of time to build that. Not a problem. At least not in places that can afford to invest in solutions. Basic…

Dikes don't work in Miami because the ground is too porous.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#113

Post by WhompingWindows »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #106

There are technical solutions to all of this. I come from a country that has been fighting back the sea for centuries (Netherlands) and that has been exporting it's knowledge to do so for a long time as well. The basic consensus is that we'll need bigger dikes and a few other things over the next decades. Plenty of time to build that. Not a problem. At least not in places that can afford to invest in solutions. Basic…

What is the bedrock of the Netherlands, geologically speaking? Pumps, dikes, and the like won't help that much in Miami because the porous limestone underlying the city allows water under and around these traditional methods.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#114

Post by TangoTrotFox »

fabricexpert wrote: post #80

This article is kind of infuriating. Just bring the facts up and talk about them, instead of describing people. I think this is one of the more critical parts (along with the stuff about water supply getting contaminated): > Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates…

I couldn't agree more. It seems to be an increasing trend in the media lately that articles are driven by narrative and emotional appeals than actual facts. This creates the bizarre scenario where you can read a 3,691 word story on how Miami will soon be underwater and yet be unable to explain Why the article is proposing this might be the case.

So for instance the first thing I did after seeing this headline was to go cross-reference the data with the NOAA. They put Miami's expected sea level rise at 0 to 1 feet over the next century [1]. So what is the reason for the discrepancy? Which figure is more likely? Why? 3,691 words and the reader will be in no way whatsoever capable of even proposing a suggestion to this question.

[1] - https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends.html

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#115

Post by leereeves »

fabricexpert wrote: post #80

This article is kind of infuriating. Just bring the facts up and talk about them, instead of describing people. I think this is one of the more critical parts (along with the stuff about water supply getting contaminated): > Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates…

According to NASA [1], global sea levels have been rising at a fairly steady 3.2 millimeters per year since 1993.

According to NOAA [2], the "relative sea level trend" in Miami Beach is 2.39 mm/year.

At those rates, in 100 years, the sea will have risen about one foot, not six.

1: https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

2: https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#117

Post by singularity2001 »

tim333 wrote: post #95

For context the global rate of sea level rise currently seems to be 4cm a decade so you could come back in 10 or 20 years and probably not notice much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise

Melt is accelerating 1cm/decade but that doen't change much near term.

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#118

Post by planteen »

craftyguy wrote: post #36
jdpedrie wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They would get some government assistence with the condition that this was the first and only time that the governmnet would help. We'll see how well that holds up next time those people need assistance. Somehow I don't see any elected politician telling his voters "sorry, we already helped you".

That's a common problem with any elected government. Tough decisions like "we need everyone here to move away right now" never get made because doing so would result in some elected politician not winning re-election.

Elected officials force people to move in Rapid City, South Dakota after the 1972 flood. Today, the flood plain is a very nice bike path with no houses. This probably happened due to the high deal toll (238 fatalities).

"Many businesses were permitted to stay in the flood plain, but houses and motels were either raised or moved due to the likelihood that a flood would occur while a person may be sleeping. The majority of the flood plain was made into large parks, which have increased in number and have been improved and updated on a continuing basis."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Black_Hills_flood

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#119

Post by tomatotomato37 »

alex_anglin wrote: post #108
beat wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn't saying Miami will be underwater soon. It's saying that Miami's water supply is at risk, partly due to rising sea levels, partly due to human activity damaging the aquifer (limestone mining, toxic waste). Moreover, six feet of sea level rise isn't going to happen instantaneously. It will take decades. Property will slowly be lost, but people will just move inland (or move away). And a key question is…

Sea walls won’t work for Miami. The ground is too porous, so the water would just seep under.

Yeah, a better example would have been stilt houses, which are already scattered around the Florida coast due to the flooding from hurricanes

Re: Miami Will Be Underwater Soon. Its Drinking Water Could Go First

#120

Post by pstuart »

leereeves wrote: post #115
fabricexpert wrote: post #80

This article is kind of infuriating. Just bring the facts up and talk about them, instead of describing people. I think this is one of the more critical parts (along with the stuff about water supply getting contaminated): > Barring a stupendous reversal in greenhouse gas emissions, the rising Atlantic will cover much of Miami by the end of this century. The economic effects will be devastating: Zillow Inc. estimates…

According to NASA [1], global sea levels have been rising at a fairly steady 3.2 millimeters per year since 1993. According to NOAA [2], the "relative sea level trend" in Miami Beach is 2.39 mm/year. At those rates, in 100 years, the sea will have risen about one foot, not six. 1: https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/ 2: https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/

Only if that rate remains steady, and it very well may not.
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