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After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

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Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#111

Stuff like this is why I have exactly zero faith in the US ever building the type of high speed rail systems that other countries have and we clearly need. These projects are simply to expensive for private entities to undertake alone and federal and local governments can't stay aligned long enough to see anything that last longer than an election period through to it's finish. Unless someone invents teleportation, w…

I have hopes for The Boring Company.

Repeat after me: Elon Musk is not the solution to all my problems.

More seriously though: its easy to bank all your hopes on one person that seems to deliver things but this isn't how it works in real life. We need a system where its easier to plan and build infrastructure. Not to accept the system as given and wait for superheros who will fix it all by themselves.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#112
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow this stuff got built before. There must be a way to get back into that state.

The defining factor of that state is a willingness to disenfranchise neighbors and obliterate communities for the sake of convenience. Politics are now far too sensitive to local constituents’ rights and opinions to permit the construction of infrastructure nearly as good as the interstate highway system. A system optimized for utility will be less useful than one balancing utility and social justice.

That’s a really interesting point and I’m sure it has a huge impact, but it can’t be the whole story. For example, the DC Metro suffers from this inability to get much done, and absurd costs and timelines when it does, yet most of their projects are underground or use existing rights of way.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#113

For sixty years, and maybe more, there have been those in either the press or politics that claim America's roads and bridges are disintegrating and the end is near. Yet I have lived in multiple regions of the country, in both dense and sparse populations, and if there's any impression I've had is that there is a very sustained, robust, and aggressive effort to maintain roads and bridges. In fact, it's something that…

The only statistics I ever see cited are those of the American Society of Civil Engineers, an interest group with a vested interest in increased infrastructure funding. I'm not hostile to the idea that we should spend more on maintenance, but I agree that we need some data from a less obviously compromised source. And that is setting aside the problem that increased funding has self-evidently not resulted in better quality of infrastructure. Kickbacks and corruption are rampant in that sector, a fact made clear recently in my hometown and county, which has seen a raft of corruption indictments and convictions related to public works projects over the last few years.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#114
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the article is clearly wrong to use a certain word, consider the possibility that they're using a different definition than you are. I, for one, would never identify "requiring less commutes" as a key facet of mobility. To me, it means that it is easier to get around – and on a large scale, that's absolutely the (successful) goal of the interstate system.

The interstate system was responsible for decimating entire down towns, completely reducing any sense of mobility for all parties involved. Uprooting trolly systems that spanned across large parts of the country. It's not a specific issue with the word, it's a issue with what the overall view of highways portrayed by the article, and the reason it was done to begin with.

This isn't a subject with easy or even straightforward answers.

There's no question that the rise of the automobile in the 1920s and later the development of the interstate highway system had a profound effect on city planning in the US. But the decline of interurban streetcars started well before the latter, and in many instances, even before the former; in which case, the interstate system accelerated an existing problem rather than creating it.

Nearly all streetcar/trolley lines were operated by private entities, and carried significant capital costs and ongoing maintenance concerns. Shortsighted agreements that gave monopoly or near-monopoly status to lines in exchange for fixed fares (the "five cent fare") . Those same agreements were financial albatrosses in the face of post-war inflation, and lines had varying degrees of success in pushing for minor fare increases. In New York in 1919, streetcar lines in Albany, Syracuse, Utica, and Troy were allowed to increase fares to six cents while New York City rejected any increase.[0] By the 1920s, many of the country's streetcar lines had gone out of business; almost all had major financial struggles. This quote sums up the challenge:

> . Charles E. Chalmers, receiver of the bankrupt Second Avenue Railroad, despaired of gaining relief. “The five-cent street car fare has become an American institution, and, as railroad operators, we must realize that this question of fare will be constantly with us. It will be a stumbling block as long as street cars run, and in New York City our people are wedded to the five-cent fare.”2

Attempts to ease tax and decades-old paving requirements on streetcar companies were met with failure, even as they further undermined cashflow. "“During the ten years from 1911 to 1920, the street railroads of New York State each year expended for paving alone an amount equal to an average of 23.4% of their net income, or to put it another way, the paving expense has amounted to approximately 5% of the total operating expenses of street railroads during that time" (60). Over 35% of NYC's paved area was maintained by street railroads. Worse, the railroads wound up subsidizing automobiles. Per J.C. Thirwall of GE's railway engineering department, "So long as municipalities offer the use of smooth pavements free of charge to all commercial vehicles and compel the railway company to pay not only for its own tracks but for much of the paving as well, a considerable bonus is offered to users of buses" (61). It also didn't help that politicians and the public at large saw street railroad owners as the prototypical villains of their day. Taken together, it all eventually combined to harm the streetcar's ability to compete with buses.[1]

General Motors may have played a role in the final waning years of the streetcar, but only after the streetcar was already dying well before the federal government started subsidizing highways. Other factors were also involved. * Suburbanizing the Masses: Public Transport and Urban Development in Historical Perspective* is a fascinating series of essays analyzing how public transportation have shaped city planning since the 1850s.[2] A number of the essays cover street railways in particular.

The same goes for the development of sprawl; there's an interesting study from 2015 that looked at street connectivity to measure sprawl and suggests that it predates the highway-centric city planning during the 50s that's widely labeled as the starting point:

> First, Fig. 1 indicates a rise in sprawl since the mid-1920s, with an acceleration after 1950. The early beginning of sprawl is notable, given that it predates the postwar era of mass car ownership. However, it provides quantitative evidence to confirm historical accounts that date the emergence of cul-de-sacs and similar departures from gridiron street patterns to the early to mid-20th century. Southworth and Ben-Joseph (17), for example, note the influence of the 1928 design, with cul-de-sacs prominently featured, for Radburn, New Jersey; they also point to the influence of recommendations for cul-de-sacs in reports by the Committee on Subdivision Layout (1932), Federal Housing Administration (1936), and Institute for Transportation Engineers (1965). These discrete events do not capture the more gradual evolution in street network design from the 1950s through the early 21st century, but our results closely match the archetypal patterns reported in ref. 17 and illustrated in the Lower panel of Fig. 1. [1]

There have absolutely been major negative consequences arising from how highway financing and subsidies were handled in the 50s. But many of the problems stemmed from how highways were viewed as "the greatest single element in the cure of city ills."[4] The "artery" model was used by city planners to effectively gut their own cities, possibly in a way that Eisenhower himself never expected.[5] When city planners wanted to get rid of poor people and "slums," which were predominantly African-American, the solution was to pave over their neighborhoods. The federal government even helped them pay for most of it. Highways became a cheap, easy tool for city planners as a result of these policies, and that had some truly disastrous consequences.[6] Setting aside the social consequences, cities were paving the road for their tax bases to--literally--leave town. There are a number of excellent books and essays on the subject. Despite that, it's important to recognize that there's a difference between the bulk of the interstate highway system and its most problematic parts in and around urban cores.

Anyhow, getting back to the article, it's written in the context of the system--flaws and all--that we've got right now. In this context, completing the missing link on I-95 does increase mobility. That's a given. More than just this stretch of highway, there are trillions of dollars worth of private development and public infrastructure that have been built in an America with the highway systems as-is. Of that infrastructure, there's a $2+ trillion maintenance funding gap. Worse yet, as elements reach their designated end of life, it all will eventually need to be replaced. The sum total of that bill is yet to come due.

Would we have been better off had city-planners not seen highways as the hammer to their perceived nails (i.e. problems--redevelopment, transportation/mobility, etc.)? Probably. The good news is that modern city planning recognizes this, and attempts to correct for some of the consequences. Unfortunately, this can only happen incrementally. That's a slow, decades-long process and it's easy to miss just how long it's going to take or the kind of compromises that are necessary.

We're getting there. But in the meantime, we still have to maintain and update all of the rest of our infrastructure--even that which represents the biggest mistakes made during highway development in the 50s.

0. https://zacharyschrag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/41-1sch...

1. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2013/06/be-careful-ho...

2. https://www.amazon.com/Suburbanizing-Masses-Development-Hist...

3. http://www.pnas.org/content/112/27/8244

4. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/role-of...

5. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/death-row-urb...

6. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1392502

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some interesting statistics of tax rates: https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Inco... - During WWI it peaked at 77% - During WWII it peaked at 94%!!

It didn't really, though. That's the marginal income rate, not capital gains -- it's a tax rate for an empty bracket. It was super effective wartime grandstanding which is still fooling everyone decades later. Capital gains -- the rate the upper class actually pays -- has never risen above 35% at the federal level. And that's within a few points of 2018 marginal rates when we factor in state level taxes for places li…

It did affect certain people, though, like movie actors like Ronald Reagan. His stated rationale for supply-side economics was that back during WW2, him and his peers would do 2 movies/year and then be done working, because doing a 3rd would put them in the top tax bracket and the government would get all the money.

https://toomuchonline.org/the-tax-that-turned-ronald-reagan-...

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#116
post #19

I really don't understand the problem. From NY to just outside Philadelphia, I-95 is part of the Jersey Turnpike. Then the Jersey turnpike is suddenly labeled I-295, and I-95 teleports to the highway running through Philadelphia. You can see it from this map [1]. They both then meet up again in Wilmington, where they both merge into 1-95 again. Why not just keep the designation of I-95 on the Jersey Turnpike througho…

The NJT is not I-295. I-295 runs about a mile or two west of the NJT.

In some cases about 50 yards west

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't really, though. That's the marginal income rate, not capital gains -- it's a tax rate for an empty bracket. It was super effective wartime grandstanding which is still fooling everyone decades later. Capital gains -- the rate the upper class actually pays -- has never risen above 35% at the federal level. And that's within a few points of 2018 marginal rates when we factor in state level taxes for places li…

It did affect certain people, though, like movie actors like Ronald Reagan. His stated rationale for supply-side economics was that back during WW2, him and his peers would do 2 movies/year and then be done working, because doing a 3rd would put them in the top tax bracket and the government would get all the money. https://toomuchonline.org/the-tax-that-turned-ronald-reagan-...

Yeah. I should say "virtually no one." The tax did apply to a very tiny proportion of high end income.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some interesting statistics of tax rates: https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Inco... - During WWI it peaked at 77% - During WWII it peaked at 94%!!

It didn't really, though. That's the marginal income rate, not capital gains -- it's a tax rate for an empty bracket. It was super effective wartime grandstanding which is still fooling everyone decades later. Capital gains -- the rate the upper class actually pays -- has never risen above 35% at the federal level. And that's within a few points of 2018 marginal rates when we factor in state level taxes for places li…

[deleted]

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i.e., highways in Jersey are a quagmire of poor planning. Actually, that applies to pretty much all roads—not just highways.

At least a lot of our roads, including city roads, got to be planned at all - still better than the mazes of very narrow, disorganized roads established hundreds of years ago you get in very old locations in Europe, particularly old cities. At least this is the impression I've gotten reading some accounts on the subject online - can't vouch for it 100%.

Just imagine what our planning will look like in one or two hundred years (or even 30-40 years). I would bet those more walk-able and bike-able cities will look a lot more attractive...

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#120

For sixty years, and maybe more, there have been those in either the press or politics that claim America's roads and bridges are disintegrating and the end is near. Yet I have lived in multiple regions of the country, in both dense and sparse populations, and if there's any impression I've had is that there is a very sustained, robust, and aggressive effort to maintain roads and bridges. In fact, it's something that…

A lot of transportation infrastructure is not maintained using federal funds, so the upkeep on bridges and roads varies a lot from state to state and even from city to city. Some larger cities may be able to put enough funds to maintain a bridge, but for smaller cities it may not be a high priority. Your experience may be an outlier in this regard.
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