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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#111

Post by gt_ »

pytyper2 wrote: post #75
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Do you remember the "Don't Be Evil" campaign? Google literally rose to prominence with this as their slogan. I would expect a company whose slogan is "Don't Be Evil" to completely shun a country who wants censored search.

You would? Google is private company. If you want a powerful entity to live up to your standards, you should look into creating a government. I recommend a democracy; and hold your neighbors accountable for treating it as their own. Together, you can eventually build something to be proud of. It will probably never be perfect, but it will be yours for as long as you take care of it.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#112

Post by GW150914 »

Eridrus wrote: post #4

So what had fundamentally changed here? Is it just that China is a bigger market now? Did Google think they actually had enough leverage to get the Chinese to back down? Are the founders simply less idealistic than before?

They don’t have to pretend to have a moral compass anymore, they’re already massive. Besides, people have seen through the lie of “don’t be evil” so why leave money on the table by living the lie? They just want money, lots and lots of money. They pretended to have a conscience when that was advantageous and dropped the act the moment it was more advantageous to do so.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#113

Post by mtgx »

macspoofing wrote: post #22
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

> It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments.

Okay, so if the US and EU governments would announce tomorrow that they will start a trade war with China and stop US/EU companies from trading with China unless China immediately stops all censorship/human rights abuses, would Google/other tech companies go along with that, or will they lobby against that move?

The tech companies are not as innocent or blameless as you portray them to be.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#115

Post by ghomrassen »

londons_explore wrote: post #6

Too late... They will never overtake Baidu, who have leaks of Googles algorithm, more data to train AI on, government support, an existing (better) product in asian languages, and a massive userbase.

Not sure if search is what they really care about. With their exit from the Chinese market in 2010, they gave up quite a bit in the Play Store, Youtube, etc. I think they want an entry back into China for the extras, rather than the search.

Anyways, I still think Baidu is pretty garbage and I constantly rely on Bing for inside China searches.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#116

Post by bunderbunder »

pytyper2 wrote: post #75
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Do you remember the "Don't Be Evil" campaign? Google literally rose to prominence with this as their slogan. I would expect a company whose slogan is "Don't Be Evil" to completely shun a country who wants censored search.

Funny you should mention that --

https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-dont-be-evil/2540...

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#117

Post by kevin_b_er »

che_shirecat wrote: post #91
manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

1) it's part of the social contract. freedom of speech is relatively new phenomena, and the history of the US has shown both the upsides and downsides of that right. standing in a town square and criticizing the king/emperor/lord would have gotten you imprisoned or killed for most of human history, from the times of the Roman emperors to the monarchies of more recent times. modern chinese trade certain rights that ma…

Yes. They know if they do not control what the population may hear, say, or do, they themselves may fall like the bad governments of the past.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#118

Post by MarkMc »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

Would you apply the same policy to countries with worse human-rights violations, like North Korea?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#119

Post by cryoshon »

baybal2 wrote: post #59
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

What people here don't understand is that the talk about censorship is of less than secondary importance there. China's priority here is totally not to censor them, it is to conduct the "handshaking ritual" and have them becoming subject under China's "law." A "blood pack" - making them partners in crime. The same was with Yahoo. They came to China talking only about "search," but got asked about "personal data of al…

very interesting. can you provide me with some sources to learn more?

this is potentially the corruption story of the century

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#120

Post by simias »

ForHackernews wrote: post #60
simias wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like "do no evil"? I have absolutely no faith at all that any large company can really stick to some moral compass. Eventually money corrupts all. Any individual morality and sense of responsibility gets diluted to the point where it disappears completely. I mean, let's take your reasoning to its logical conclusion: I think most would agree that not paying taxes isn't very ethical, does it mean that we shoul…

> we shouldn't have any laws and regulations and controlling bodies surrounding these topics because it's a line "a tech company shouldn't cross"? What? No, it means that we shouldn't shrug off bad corporate behavior and say oh well, I guess tax avoidance was good for their quarterly profits. Raising outrage is an important check on corporate behavior, even moreso in a place like HN, where employers like Google hope…

I see what you mean but I sort of disagree, the problem with outrage-based policing is that it's extremely variable and in this day of social medial it's also very easy to manipulate and instrumentalize. In particular outrage works well for punctual, symbolic acts, not for long trends. See basically anything regarding the alt-right.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be outraged and voice it, I'm saying that for something as large and intricate as our economical and political relashionship with China you can't really expect it to achieve much. The consequences of outrage should be to change laws and regulations to make sure that it never happens again, not Google saying "oh sorry, I won't do it (this time)".

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