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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#111

Post by EliRivers »

dbg31415 wrote: post #75

Hate the title. Something is either a good enough idea (or entrenched enough idea) to withstand disruption. Or it's not. If it's not... it sort of deserved to be replaced by something better. Libraries tend to be a good idea. That said... I haven't been to one in a decade. Not really sure what's changed in that time, hopefully they offer free wi-fi... and hopefully there aren't a row of creepy bums watching porn on t…

Would you pay more tax in order to recreate homeless centres or other such so the libraries don't accidentally provide this service?

It would seem a little rough to close libraries because they're forced by circumstance to pick up some of the fallout of other services having been cut already.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#112

Post by kaitai »

rayiner wrote: post #18
larkeith wrote: post #7

Personally, I cannot fathom finding it preferable, or even acceptable, for Amazon to attempt to displace my local library; Much like bookstores, there's an essential soul to them any corporate invader like Amazon lacks utterly. I have fond memories of summers spent trawling the stacks, afternoons at a table with friends working on homework, DnD sessions in the private meeting rooms, and browsing old stock auctions fo…

Expenditure of public money on an endeavor should not be driven by romantic notions like whether something has "essential soul." Tax money is a scarce resource. Money that's spent on libraries is tax money that's not available to offer better lunches to needy children. That's the calculus. Our county library system gets $22 million a year in tax dollars to service 2.4 million visits. Could Amazon meet those needs mor…

Hey, if Amazon's going to start providing story time every Friday morning for kids across the country, homelessness services, adult day care, job training, maker spaces, meeting rooms for community groups, and free AC in a time of hotter summers across much of the US, I'd love to see it! Especially if I don't have to pay a cent more than I already do!

And my library system already works with the schools to provide free lunches to any child, anyone under 18, all summer long. So. Have your cheese stick and carrots and eat them too, then read a book :)

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#114

Post by glup »

Fricken wrote: post #51
zitterbewegung wrote: post #8

All of the local libraries near me have a 3D printer. One library close by offers a coworkers space I can borrow a Roku and aLaptop. . Libraries don't need distruption they are already doing it themselves.

My local libraries are converting into makerspaces. They have green screens, sound studios, mac pros with Adobe creative suite software, 3D printers, Lego mindstorms, and a bunch of other stuff. Knowledge that can be printed is now abundant, but vernacular knowledge remains scarce, and the libraries in my city are becoming a storehouse for that knowledge. It's pretty cool.

out of interest, what city?

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#115

Post by rainbowmverse »

romaniv wrote: post #59
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

This is a very important point. Libraries do more than just lend books. They are institutions that preserve and promote knowledge and have certain values "built in". They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. Having cheap books available in Kindle store does not fully replace functionality of a library.

A newspaper interviewed a local librarian. The interviewer pointed out a lot of people use the free wifi from the parking lot after hours, and asked if that was a problem.

"That's the whole point."

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#116

Post by darpa_escapee »

chlvsl wrote: post #101
zachrose wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll go the other direction. Public libraries have large and networked collections, physical and digital, that they let you borrow for free. Why do we need to buy from Amazon and subscribe to Netflix when in theory the libraries could provide all that content?

They're not free. They're taxpayer subsidized.

This is not informative. This is pedantic.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#117

Post by JoeDaDude »

Librarians sometime have to fight to defend their patrons privacy. Some might remember that in the wake of 9/11 there were thoughts that libraries could tip off law enforcement by tracking patrons reading preferences [1]. More recent treatment of the issues - and laws - about the privacy, or lack thereof, of library patrons is discussed in [2].

[1]. https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/FBI-checking-out-Ame...

[2]. https://www.thenation.com/article/librarians-versus-nsa/

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#118

Post by sedachv »

romaniv wrote: post #59
geebee wrote: post #12

I'm largely in agreement with this Vox piece, but I think there's much more to say in defense of libraries as well. I have a friend who found a red envelope with some money in it in a book that he'd checked out of the library. He figured it belonged to whoever had checked the book out earlier, so he went into the branch and mentioned it. They said that they could find out the last person to read the book, but no more…

This is a very important point. Libraries do more than just lend books. They are institutions that preserve and promote knowledge and have certain values "built in". They also often serve as local community centers of sorts. Having cheap books available in Kindle store does not fully replace functionality of a library.

Not to mention that libraries have curated collections, which unlike the Kindle store are not filled with bot-generated scammer garbage: http://davidgaughran.com/2017/06/03/amazon-has-a-fake-book-p...

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#119

Post by kaitai »

Djvacto wrote: post #110
rayiner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting "Amazon to pay its fair share in taxes" is a pipe dream. The United States is, by design, a race-to-the-bottom internal free market. Any given county has to balance tax rates with attracting/keeping businesses in the county. So the tax money coming in is what it is. Especially if you're one of the 99.9% of counties outside the Silicon Valley halo. The policy question is how to spend that tax money, and what m…

I think your discounting of a romantic notion, or the concept of "essential soul" overlooks the fact that this correlates highly with how the service is perceived, and thus used, as well as how it is run, which is something you can see discussed various other places in the comments. Replacing the library, whose purpose is the best interests of its users, with a business, whose purpose is the best interests of its sha…

This is exactly right. There are two ingredients to making money: providing value and externalizing costs. When the value provided by an entity is essentially that it doesn't externalize costs -- that it's a sink for societal costs -- it doesn't make sense to commercialize it. We fund libraries because we want them to do unprofitable things.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#120

Post by TimTheTinker »

rb808 wrote: post #57
chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> try going to one This is probably the best hint that they might not be so useful. The truth is most people never go to libraries.

> most people never go to libraries.

Perhaps, but most* people would benefit from doing so.

* >= 50%

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