Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy • Hacker News Board

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#111

Post by citizenkeen » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 9:02 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #51

pastor_elm wrote: post #40

>"She once had her own office, secretaries and assistants, along with titles like “director” that spoke to her decades of experience. Now, she’s a temp — one of many. >Levi was laid off from her job at a law office during a merger in early 2015, and has struggled to find long-term work. In late 2016, she filed for bankruptcy." How do you go from director at 59 to filing bankruptcy in fewer than two year after losing…

I think about this a lot. I've always been a bit concerned with pricing myself out of the market. I've never really fought particularly hard for pay raises, but I have kept up my education and experience and my pay has risen pretty consistently, putting me in a very comfortable salary range. But I still consider the possibility that the bottom could drop out completely and every employer in the US could collectively…

My wife and I read the Two Income Trap early in our relationship. Then I went to grad school. Then she went to grad school. Then I went to grad school again.

After seven years, we had never really had two incomes, only one.

So when we had a kid, all of our expectations were built on one income. We maintained those - my wife has been a SAHM now for almost three years. She's going to go back when he starts pre-school one or two days a week, but she'll be choosing satisfaction over money, and only to keep skills relevant (she still gets job offers). If I ever lose my job, she can make a call, get a job (she's privileged in her field), and pick up 80% of my slack. We did this so that we never have to be too worried about my team scaling down.

It helps me sleep at night.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#112

Post by manfredo » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 9:24 PM UTC

wiz21c wrote: post #77

wufufufu wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 out of 5 of your examples are about income inequality, which isn't the same as how strong the economy is IMO. Everyone could be living in a shack and the poverty line = no shack and by your definition the economy would be strong if everyone could afford a new shack if their current one collapsed.

if you separate income inequality and economy, then you basically say that economy's goal is not to improve everybody's life. Benefits of successful economy should be shared by everyone.

If 9 out of 10 people's wages increase by 10% and the remaining one out of 10 sees their income go up by 1,000% did the economy get worse (assuming cost of living remains stating)? How so, given everyone's real incomes rose?

This is why I'm usually skeptical of most claims that point to inequality as proof the economy is doing poorly. In absolute metrics, people's lives are usually getting better. The Economist ran an article a while ago that measured standards of living in absolute metrics (% of households without electricity or plumbing, whithout an automobile, that sort of thing). Almost across the board, everyone's situations are better. The main downturn is home ownership and apartment situations - but that's more to do with cities' housing restrictions rather than the economy.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#113

Post by pascalxus » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 9:27 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

nine_k wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Consumption" is just something that does not produce an income. It's not about some excessive consumption. I mean, if you buy your 100" TV with debt, it's that not great, but if you buy your daily bread with debt, you're in a big trouble.

> but if you buy your daily bread with debt, you're in a big trouble. That's the problem. People are funding survival on credit. How do you fix that? Raise wages. How do you raise wages outside of macro supply/demand factors (interest rates, employment slack)? Politics.

The way you fix that is by making the cost of living lower. We need to get rid of all laws that force people to take on high cost living. Currently, if a builder wants to produce low cost housing by using cheaper materials, small square footage, etc, they're simply not allowed to do it: it's illegal in most places. Plus the land is proibitively expensive, which is a problem with zoning.

Next, for medical care, we need to overhaul the laws that govern medical insurance. Once again, if you try create your own affordable medical insurance that only covers in-expensive treatments, legally it's not allowed. Furthermore, there's a lot financial liability with going to a hospital. Gov't could enact laws that prevent the end customer from being financially liable above a certain amount per treatment: and force the hospital cartels to pay for it. I'm guessing that'll help hospitals become more cost effective in a hurry and prevent all that price gouging.

And third, consumers need to learn to spend within their means. There's so many things you can do to reduce your monthly costs, that most people haven't even begun to scratch the surface. Does your car really need an oil change every 3k miles? no do you really need an 80$/month cell phone bill when a 20$ one can do? do you really need to pay 100$ a month on cable when youtube gives you all the entertainment you could already want for free? (or just go to the library) etc, etc. And stop thinking that McDonalds is cheap. 8$ a meal (24$/day) is not cheap (you could eat oatmeal, beans, rice and bananas for just 1.50$ a day) there's countless more examples of this.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#114

Post by bfrog » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

pastor_elm wrote: post #40

>"She once had her own office, secretaries and assistants, along with titles like “director” that spoke to her decades of experience. Now, she’s a temp — one of many. >Levi was laid off from her job at a law office during a merger in early 2015, and has struggled to find long-term work. In late 2016, she filed for bankruptcy." How do you go from director at 59 to filing bankruptcy in fewer than two year after losing…

Healthcare coverage for a family of 3 at middle 30s costs 1200/mo, more than my mortgage. Do you believe paying for insurance, to cover some inevitable medical issue, irresponsible?

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#115

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

pascalxus wrote: post #113

toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if you buy your daily bread with debt, you're in a big trouble. That's the problem. People are funding survival on credit. How do you fix that? Raise wages. How do you raise wages outside of macro supply/demand factors (interest rates, employment slack)? Politics.

The way you fix that is by making the cost of living lower. We need to get rid of all laws that force people to take on high cost living. Currently, if a builder wants to produce low cost housing by using cheaper materials, small square footage, etc, they're simply not allowed to do it: it's illegal in most places. Plus the land is proibitively expensive, which is a problem with zoning. Next, for medical care, we nee…

My personal opinion is that these are all terrible ideas. You’re attempting to normalize poverty. You can’t not live near jobs. You can’t not consume essential healthcare. This is not an argument about avocado toast.

People need their incomes to rise (after stagnanting for the last four decades), period.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#116

Post by lovich » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #112

wiz21c wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you separate income inequality and economy, then you basically say that economy's goal is not to improve everybody's life. Benefits of successful economy should be shared by everyone.

If 9 out of 10 people's wages increase by 10% and the remaining one out of 10 sees their income go up by 1,000% did the economy get worse (assuming cost of living remains stating)? How so, given everyone's real incomes rose? This is why I'm usually skeptical of most claims that point to inequality as proof the economy is doing poorly. In absolute metrics, people's lives are usually getting better. The Economist ran a…

If you live in a society where money == power, then rising inequality does make your life worse.

Maybe today you get the benefits of new tech and it's and improvement, but tomorrow is a vote on if you get healthcare or not and you have less influence in society so you have less say in your destiny and things that affect you directly

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#117

Post by slededit » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

francisofascii wrote: post #91

slededit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't medicare better than most private insurance plans?

Medicare doesn't start until 65. So they probably mean would have retired early.

Close to half the baby boomer cohort is 65 or older now. We're not talking about early retirement.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#118

Post by TheCoelacanth » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 10:30 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #76

VLM wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For consistencies sake" (or more likely, to make the numbers look better) the stats have been compiled the same way for a century or more with criteria relevant to an economy mostly employing unskilled manual laborers for factory work and ag work. Because unskilled laborers can find a job if they want in less than a year, they drop off the unemployement rolls after a year. Of course its trivial if you have an esoter…

The only problem with that rant is that the entire premise is false. Unemployment benefits have a time limit, but unemployment statistics do not (you only fall off of the headline unemployment statistic if you become institutionalized or employed, stop actively looking for work, or die.)

Even some of the people who stop actively looking for work are still tracked in unemployment statistics, just not in the U3 rate that is usually reported headlines. Discouraged and marginally attached workers who have stopped looking for work because they don't think they will find a job but who would like to work if they could find one are tracked in the U4 and U5 measures.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#119

Post by nine_k » Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 11:34 PM UTC

pascalxus wrote: post #113

toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if you buy your daily bread with debt, you're in a big trouble. That's the problem. People are funding survival on credit. How do you fix that? Raise wages. How do you raise wages outside of macro supply/demand factors (interest rates, employment slack)? Politics.

The way you fix that is by making the cost of living lower. We need to get rid of all laws that force people to take on high cost living. Currently, if a builder wants to produce low cost housing by using cheaper materials, small square footage, etc, they're simply not allowed to do it: it's illegal in most places. Plus the land is proibitively expensive, which is a problem with zoning. Next, for medical care, we nee…

> Gov't could enact laws that prevent the end customer from being financially liable above a certain amount per treatment

This basically introduces gov't-supported insurance for treatments above that sum. If they would say that hospitals should just eat the cost, the hospitals will have to put a large part of this cut into increased cost of other, cheaper treatments.

Not that I know the fix for the cost disease in US medicine. But likely it lies somewhere allowing hospitals compete on price.

Re: Millions of educated, experienced workers are tossed aside by a strong economy

#120

Post by tonyedgecombe » Tue, Jul 24, 2018, 9:37 AM UTC

citizenkeen wrote: post #110

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very entitled and selfish statement. It doesn't take a huge imagination to realise the unexpected could happen, especially at that age. If you have had a reasonable career in a well paying job then it is irresponsible not to put something away for a rainy day.

In the United States, a bad medical problem can cost five-to-ten years' salary. That's one hell of a rainy day fund. https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

The article didn't mention a bad medical problem, rather some low level issues.

I'm not sure using the lack of socialised health care as an excuse for not managing your finances is sensible. It's only a minority that need expensive health care before 65 but it seems it's the majority who aren't managing to live within their means.