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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#111

Post by manigandham »

_hardwaregeek wrote: post #103
manigandham wrote: post #79

Apple biggest UX failures always stem from putting form before function. There is a lower limit to thinness/lightness before consumers just don't care, and it was passed long ago. There was great progress made with the unibody Macbook Pros and the Macbook Airs but these latest models are so thin that it's actually annoying and leads to issues like poor battery life, lack of repair-ability, and malfunctioning keyboard…

On one hand I'm inclined to agree with you. Thin is not always better. On the other hand I'm holding my 3 pound Macbook Pro comfortably and easily. It's light enough that I don't have to think about slipping it into my day bag (something I did think about with the previous iteration) and thin enough to easily grip with one hand and walk around. When I was traveling, there wasn't even a question about whether I would…

You wouldn't notice if it was 5lbs either, the human body is much more capable than that unless we're talking about small children. People routinely carry much bigger and heavier things.

Perhaps if it was still a netbook/macbook air product then it would make sense, but we also have iphones and ipads now which actually seem to be getting bigger so there's no reason why the most mobile powerful computing device must be so small.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#112

Post by rorykoehler »

mushufasa wrote: post #68
acomjean wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they'll gradually improve the keyboard. It won't be great but it will be good enough. like the "don't hold it that way" antenna gate problem and the phone bending problems.. They'll fix.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_6#Chassis_bending Honestly, its hard to get off the mac ecosystem though. I have a macbook pro, and am starting to look at linux laptops. Th…

System 76 (the small linux-only hardware manufacturer) just refreshed their Oryx Pro last month, which looks pretty capable and looks from afar to be really good build quality. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx I haven't found many/any reviews of it since the refresh -- does anyone on HN have one who can attest?

You can't be serious? The thing doesn't even have a centred trackpad.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#113

Post by Firerouge »

sandmansandine wrote: post #71
yawn_010101 wrote: post #47

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

Serious question: Why didn't you mention the genders of the the people from "the "good old days"" but had to say over and over again that you were dealing with "Middle manager woman"

Your comment seems to be against multiple HN guidelines, particularly those regarding assuming good faith, not post shallow and dismissive comments, and the rule regarding ideological wars.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#114

Post by monktastic1 »

mehrdadn wrote: post #99
sandmansandine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Why didn't you mention the genders of the the people from "the "good old days"" but had to say over and over again that you were dealing with "Middle manager woman"

I'm confused what the point of this question is. Would you have found it more satisfying if the parent had said "I had a couple of [male] contacts from the good ol' days" ?

Why mention gender at all? Does anyone call out a "young male manager" in such a story?

Not saying OP did this, but one can imagine using adjectives to hint at competence or lack thereof here.

FWIW I have no dog in this race. Parent comment just got me thinking.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#115

Post by bdcravens »

oldcynic wrote: post #75
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

Short of fitting a keyboard condom, or iPad (no doubt called TouchBoard) where the keyboard used to be, what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness? So I expect to see a couple more releases of ultra thin keyboards with various fix mechanisms before they accept that rules of physics and dust apply to them too. :)

> what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness?

Go back to previous thickness; it wasn't that bad, and thin for the most powerful portable they sell isn't necessarily a good thing. They could even couple it with advancements in battery tech to finally put 32GB on their laptop.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#116

Post by aroman »

yesimahuman wrote: post #80
spyckie2 wrote: post #52

This is NOT a big issue for consumers. Apple is great at keeping customers happy, their 4 year warranty extension for replacing the keyboard shows this. This IS a business issue. It has a quantifiable effect on profit margins for Apple's macbook, and I would look at it as an investor and see if it effects Apple's valuation in the short and long run. The Note 7 is a fantastic comparison - the complete recall did not h…

Not mentioned in this article is how many people also dislike the feel of the keyboard. Add that to risking an out of commission work machine and it’s a big deal for consumers.

> Not mentioned in this article is how many people also dislike the feel of the keyboard

Do you have any statistics on that? Anecdotally, almost everyone I've spoken to prefers the new keyboard over the old one, ignoring the key stuck issue.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#117

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

wutbrodo wrote: post #104
ngngngng wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only thing I'm considering is a thinkpad x1 carbon. But the last time I tried putting linux on a laptop I had a few issues submitted to the linux kernel and still didn't have the laptop working perfectly (Asus zenbook) within a week I returned it and bought a MacBook pro. Might be time for another go.

I believe Thinkpads are famously easy to make work with Linux. I had one in college (a decade ago) and an x1 carbon when I was at Google (several years ago) and both of them were excellent (though the latter obviously would've had any kinks ironed out by the Goobuntu team). My last couple laptops had better hardware (for my needs) than ThinkPads or Macbooks, but the occasional compatibility issue is enough that I'm t…

RedHat people famously also use lots of ThinkPads.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#119

Post by ehnto »

monktastic1 wrote: post #114
mehrdadn wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused what the point of this question is. Would you have found it more satisfying if the parent had said "I had a couple of [male] contacts from the good ol' days" ?

Why mention gender at all? Does anyone call out a "young male manager" in such a story? Not saying OP did this, but one can imagine using adjectives to hint at competence or lack thereof here. FWIW I have no dog in this race. Parent comment just got me thinking.

People do it when subconsciously or consciously trying to paint a picture with stereotypes. So if someone wanted to illustrate they were talking about a testosterone filled ego driven 20 something, they might include the term young male manager in their descriptor.

Is it right or wrong? Probably not great. I don't do it. But I get how it happens. Probably not nefarious, just a little tonedeaf.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#120

Post by stcredzero »

yawn_010101 wrote: post #47

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains.

They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure).

I keep on interviewing recent Comp Sci graduates who have a 3.75 or a 4.0 and who can't tell me how to implement cycle detection -- to the extent that they could write a pseudocode function signature or some kind of concretely implementable design. Many of the same grads try to tell me that a null pointer in a C structure uses no memory and other nonsense like that. You know what I think? I think the CA grad student population no longer knows those things, so they are producing undregrads who know even less.

my MBP crashes when plugging in an external monitor, etc?

When my Macbook Pro is "locked" it flashes an image of the desktop screen just before switching to the login prompt.

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