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Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

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Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#111

Post by the-pigeon »

EpicEng wrote: post #70
cncrnd wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. He probably just didn't like the team/felt that they didn't know what they were doing/they wasted more time on meetings and discussion in general rather than him just not wanting to justify his approach.

I just can't imagine being able to judge that in a two week period unless it's a total shit show. I have no reason to doubt the GP and I think its more likely this is just a case of "I know better".

And honestly unless the hiring manager straight up lied during interviewing that's the employees fault for not asking better questions about the position during the interview process.

So many people forget that interviews are a two way street. I don't want to hire someone that is going to be unhappy in the position because unhappy programmers have poor output and bring down team morale.

They need to ask specific questions about the things that are important to them in a job so I know they are really thinking about whether the position is right for them or not.

Candidates who ask me no questions after being prompted for them never make it past the phone screening interview despite sometimes being very technically capable.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#112

Post by JustSomeNobody »

ageitgey wrote: post #37
patorjk wrote: post #16

> I do know that my manager called me up pissed off about the phone call he’d received, and told me to not use him as a reference in the future. It's also important for your references to know that they're your references ahead of time. You may think you have a good relationship with someone only to discover that they aren't a reliable positive reference. People also don't like being caught off guard.

This is so important! Story time: I once hired someone as a Mid/Senior Dev at a large company in SV who had strong dev skills. Everything seemed great at first and we were very excited to have this person join the team. I respected this dev and had no personal issues with them. Our interactions were positive. However this person quit suddenly after maybe two weeks because they didn't like having to justify their tech…

You don't say anything. You transfer the person to your HR dept and they only confirm employment.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#113

Post by greggarious »

ageitgey wrote: post #37
patorjk wrote: post #16

> I do know that my manager called me up pissed off about the phone call he’d received, and told me to not use him as a reference in the future. It's also important for your references to know that they're your references ahead of time. You may think you have a good relationship with someone only to discover that they aren't a reliable positive reference. People also don't like being caught off guard.

This is so important! Story time: I once hired someone as a Mid/Senior Dev at a large company in SV who had strong dev skills. Everything seemed great at first and we were very excited to have this person join the team. I respected this dev and had no personal issues with them. Our interactions were positive. However this person quit suddenly after maybe two weeks because they didn't like having to justify their tech…

To clarify: you took issue with this person quitting mainly?

I'd be careful saying negative things about an employee for quitting - under at will laws, it can create legal liability to retaliate when someone exercises their at-will rights.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#114

Post by defen »

Kluny wrote: post #64
jrockway wrote: post #48

I've never had anyone call my references. The most anyone has ever wanted is a W-2 form to prove I worked there. I think it would be kind of unusual. What's the incentive to give an unbiased reference for free? If I didn't like someone, I'd say "oh yeah, they're great", because it's not my problem and I don't want to be held accountable for the person not getting a job. If they are great, I'd say the same thing, of c…

The higher you rise in your career, and the better companies you work for, the more you'll find your references are checked. When I applied for a part-time Christmas season job at a Photos with Santa booth last year, no one checked my references. For my current salaried job, they checked every single one (I gave four).

What is the downside to just always giving a positive review, though? To rephrase the original question - this is recruiter/company A calling a person who works at company B to see if someone is suitable for company A. If you just always give a nice review, what is the downside for you? Unless you had genuine personal issues with the candidate, why wouldn't you just always give a good review? If the person doesn't work out, what recourse does the recruiter / company A have against you?

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#115

Post by mathattack »

gav wrote: post #57
ageitgey wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so important! Story time: I once hired someone as a Mid/Senior Dev at a large company in SV who had strong dev skills. Everything seemed great at first and we were very excited to have this person join the team. I respected this dev and had no personal issues with them. Our interactions were positive. However this person quit suddenly after maybe two weeks because they didn't like having to justify their tech…

I’ll second this for a different set of reasons. Firstly, if you talk to your reference about the position you are applying for they will be in a better position to give meaningful feedback. I’ve been able to take somebody from a “maybe” to a hire because I knew how their interview went and their perceived weaknesses. Secondly, you want to make sure that the person isn’t just going to be cold called—ideally they can…

Amen! The reference check takes work for both you and the reference. Never give it out early because there is prep time for everyone.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#116

Post by nameisu »

reureu wrote: post #95

I got a call from an external recruiter: "I have a candidate who would be a great fit for your company." I'm just a lowly data scientist with no hiring power, and at that job the entire data science team was quitting. So, I mentioned that I didn't think the team was growing since it seemed to be actively shrinking with no new reqs that I was aware of. Recruiter immediately turned it around and said they could represe…

I tried not giving a word document. recruiters didn't submit me to clients then. Being desperate for a job after college you don't have any leverage. They just wanted to delete my contact details and put their own. No one has modified my lines so far but I can see that it does happen.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#117

Post by bo1024 »

jrockway wrote: post #48

I've never had anyone call my references. The most anyone has ever wanted is a W-2 form to prove I worked there. I think it would be kind of unusual. What's the incentive to give an unbiased reference for free? If I didn't like someone, I'd say "oh yeah, they're great", because it's not my problem and I don't want to be held accountable for the person not getting a job. If they are great, I'd say the same thing, of c…

To add one more point, though this is not from personal experience, I'd guess that references get asked more detailed questions than "are they great?" which will reveal how sincere their recommendation is, and what strengths the person has.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#118

Post by jags-v »

madeofpalk wrote: post #110
vosper wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters in the UK are much sleazier than in the US, in my experience.

This goes for Australia, considering most tech recruiters in Australia are from the UK for some reason.

One of the reasons, may be how the work reciprocation laws work with UK & Australia

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#119

Post by dbetteridge »

madeofpalk wrote: post #110
vosper wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters in the UK are much sleazier than in the US, in my experience.

This goes for Australia, considering most tech recruiters in Australia are from the UK for some reason.

Really depends on the city and recruiter, I've dealt with 3 great tech recruiters in Aus, 2 of them were Irish.

Pushed their hardest to place me and get the salary range I requested and pdf resume and LinkedIn was fine.

Re: Don't Provide Your References to a Recruiter Until After Your Last Interview

#120

Post by tjr225 »

My understanding was that references are explicitly always available upon request and there's nothing more to it. If the prospective employer wants them, I'll give them to them if I'm interested enough. I don't put anything about my references on my resume and I believe this is the common wisdom.
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