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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#111

Post by imglorp »

endorphone wrote: post #85
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

Do you think the US plays by free trade? Intellectual property rights/copyright laws, both linchpins of US policy, are the very definition of government intervention. The US aerospace and manufacturing industry is overwhelmingly subsidized by the military complex, a lot of it done under the auspices of "national security". For the US to complain about Airbus or Bombardier is simply incredible. US agriculture is outra…

Don't forget fossil fuel subsidies. Around $20B/year but the dollar cost is only part of the destruction here.

http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#112

Post by frockington »

onion2k wrote: post #110
mchannon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they raise the price. Then they just don't sell as much, leaving you to either consume less food or buy cheaper substitutes (retaliatory pork tariffs should mean cheaper bacon back home, shouldn't they?). Asked no serious manufacturer ever: "Gee, should I use this minor setback as an excuse to shut my entire operation down or slightly adjust my prices?" New suppliers may spring up, or existing suppliers may change…

We're talking about food. You can't just put up a farm and start producing a few weeks later. Depending on the crop it can take years before a farm is productive. So no, new suppliers don't just 'spring up'. This sort of economic activity can lead to food shortages.

This is why the US subsidizes agriculture so heavily, so they can quickly spin up more farms

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#113

Post by defertoreptar »

ska wrote: post #103
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

> So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence.

You need look no further than the USA's gaping trade deficits.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#114

Post by [deleted] »

samastur wrote: post #105
tomp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if there are enough people who can afford the local made product Eventually, it will keep more money in the country, meaning people will also be able to afford more (after all, they'll be being paid the higher, local wages now). Compare with e.g. Switzerland, where most people have really high salary (by EU standards), and pretty much everything is really expensive, but because of the high salaries people can affor…

This works only as long as people having these high salaries do work with high added value and you are not relying much on international trade. Otherwise they can be effectively undercut by people who can do the same thing cheaper.

[deleted]

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#116

Post by jeromegv »

defertoreptar wrote: post #113
ska wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

> So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. You need look no further than the USA's gaping trade deficits.

There is no trade deficit with Canada.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#117

Post by singularity2001 »

frockington wrote: post #71
digitalzombie wrote: post #25

I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

Oh, that's the game? Trump wants an argument to later push again for those horrible secret «free trade deals» which would have undermined European politics, consumer-safety, ecological standards and democracy itself? (TTIP and co)

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#118

Post by cdumler »

frockington wrote: post #109
ska wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

I believe nobody should have tariffs. Understanding that is never going to happen, it should at least be a starting ppoint

I'm glad that you believe it, but it's not a reasonable position. The primary reason for some U.S. tariffs is the legitimate reason of national security. We provide tariffs on certain foods, mineral resources, and military products because we want to guarantee that we do not loose production ability. Should we suddenly find ourselves in a world war, we would not be creating these production lines from scratch. Therefore, tariffs are always a balancing act between being nice to our friends and ensuring we keep some level of production available.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#119

Post by raverbashing »

endorphone wrote: post #85
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

Do you think the US plays by free trade? Intellectual property rights/copyright laws, both linchpins of US policy, are the very definition of government intervention. The US aerospace and manufacturing industry is overwhelmingly subsidized by the military complex, a lot of it done under the auspices of "national security". For the US to complain about Airbus or Bombardier is simply incredible. US agriculture is outra…

> US agriculture is outrageously subsidized. I'll go into a specific example in a moment

Yeah, corn. That's why everything is HFCS heavy in the US. And I do mean everything.

Things that didn't need to have so much sugar like bread, ketchup, other sauces, soup, etc.

It's easier to get it than to avoid it.

And american's health suffer for it.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#120

Post by ChuckMcM »

frockington wrote: post #109
ska wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

I believe nobody should have tariffs. Understanding that is never going to happen, it should at least be a starting ppoint

That will work as soon as we have a single currency.

The EU is a really good example here of how a single currency puts everyone on the same economic accounting basis and so eliminates the ability of a country to 'fudge' the numbers through either internal subsidies or currency manipulation.

The reason you need a single currency is that if you're going to sell barrels of wheat from country X to country Y, and country Y buys televisions from country X. How many units of currency is a television worth relative to a barrel of wheat? If those values are tied to the same currency, then the economic incentive to grow wheat or build televisions will be on the same footing.

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