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Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

nytimes.com

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Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#111

Post by Florin_Andrei »

mrtksn wrote: post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> an equilibrium will be reached

Unless it keeps changing and never settles.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#112

Post by mrtksn »

coldtea wrote: post #110
mrtksn wrote: post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most iconic places in London. I worked at the Shard, I worked at the Cafe Royal, I worked at Four Seasons in events where celebrities like Victoria Beckham or Prince Harry were guests. The the "finest, the most iconic p…

I think it's mostly about the workforce supply flexibility. Agency workers are paid more than the regular staff at the same position and there is the agency fee on top of the hourly rate.

We were also called "candidate" as if we are permanent job candidates. That was actually true for some people who actually persued jobs in the hospitality industry and when someone gets a permanent job the employer pays the agency a fee.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#113

Post by rossdavidh »

It seems to me that this article (and many others, and the underlying statistics they report on) are lumping together a lot of different things under the same label, that aren't all that similar. I am a contract programmer, but my typical contract is 6-9 months in duration, and I get paid well. Is that part of the "gig economy"? It's not much like driving for Uber, I think, but it is neither part-time nor permanent employment, so it would often get lumped in there. Some truck-drivers work on a per-gig basis, but even though they are driving things for money it doesn't work all that much like Uber, in terms of pay or how you get treated or what your leverage in the market. I think the term "gig economy" is too broad to say anything meaningful about.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#114

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #110
mrtksn wrote: post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most iconic places in London. I worked at the Shard, I worked at the Cafe Royal, I worked at Four Seasons in events where celebrities like Victoria Beckham or Prince Harry were guests. The the "finest, the most iconic p…

[deleted]

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#115

Post by drdeca »

knuththetruth wrote: post #107
jlarocco wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill. It's more accurate to say business owners and consumers are benefiting at the expense of the employees.

The idea that “consumers” are a separate class from employees is specious. There’s only labor and Capital owners, with the latter doing a wonderful job of turning the former against themselves.

Perhaps people can benefit from something in their capacity as a consumer while it being a downside in their capacity as an employee, and then on net as a person either benefit from or experience a detriment from the change, depending on which of the two was larger?

Like, suppose someone is selling some good and they get paid on commission, as like, some proportion of the purchase cost. If the price of goods of that sort go down (maybe one of the materials needed to manufacture it became more abundant?), then they would receive less income, but also not have to pay as much for different similar goods, and whether they are overall better or worse off would depend on the details.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#116

Post by andrewflnr »

knuththetruth wrote: post #107
jlarocco wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill. It's more accurate to say business owners and consumers are benefiting at the expense of the employees.

The idea that “consumers” are a separate class from employees is specious. There’s only labor and Capital owners, with the latter doing a wonderful job of turning the former against themselves.

The roles of consumer, employee and employer are relative with respect to industry. The same person could occupy all three roles in different parts of their life (e.g small business owner who outsources, does GrubHub deliveries when business is slow, and uses Uber when they go out drinking. I'm not saying labor vs capital isn't also a useful perspective, but to say it's the only one ignores the complexity of reality.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#117

Post by dabockster »

wtfrmyinitials wrote: post #105
ProblemFactory wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the main issues is that the current employment classification is too binary. There are independent contractors, who are really independent small businesses: set their own rates, do their own advertising, choose their own customers, and keep all of the profit. And employees, who work for their employer for set hours, and get a stable salary and benefits in return. We need a new third category: dependent…

What would the characteristics of a "dependent contractor" be?

Probably a modification to the 14-point test the IRS uses to determine whether or not someone is an employee vs a contractor. You'd have to modify the questions to inquire about whether or not the person in question was either downgraded to contract status from a full job or was hired as a contractor even though the job posting implied full time W2 work.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#118

Post by __jal »

sotojuan wrote: post #30
nerdponx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

Or they did the Fiverr ads for the NYC subways. There’s one that makes fun of people with white collar careers by calling them “chained down” and declaring that working for Fiverr in the gig economy is better.

I really wanted to ask the people who worked there about their employment contracts. Surely the CEO was contingent, right? Their coders were all at-whim employees, living in the New Style, pushing code for $$ when they wanted to.

Right?

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#119

Post by reaperducer »

nerdponx wrote: post #14
lalos wrote: post #5

It did reshape it. Turns out you can offload your costs to your 'employees' that hardly will organize and project costs and earnings to the future (like a competent business). I've talked with bunch of car sharing drivers who were bamboozled with car loans, get hit by traffic infractions, costs of maintenance and the list goes on and on. I feel that the gig economy preys on people who have not developed that risk man…

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

>Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill.

Sometimes you just need a quick gig to make ends meet between jobs. Something you can pick up in a day or two and leave just as quickly.

Full-time, long-term? No, it's not a great idea. But it's a good safety net when things get tough.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#120

Post by drdeca »

gaius wrote: post #91
briandear wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps the business owner and the consumer. Let’s not forget the consumer here. It also helps those willing to engage in gig activities. If Uber wasn’t marginally beneficial to drivers, why do they do it? Acting like Uber drivers are all idiots and need “protecting” is idiotic. If the economics don’t work, they quit.

If Uber wasn’t marginally beneficial to drivers, why do they do it? If HFCS wasn’t healthy, why do people eat it?

Healthy and marginally beneficial aren't really synonymous. People value things other than just their health.

Now, that isn't to say that it wouldn't be better if people consumed less HFCS. (But, isn't the ubiquity of HFCS partially due to corn subsidies? I think I heard that.)

So, uh, when people purchase foods with HFCF I think it makes sense that this aligns with their marginal preferences. Does this mean it is to thei benefit? Hmm.

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