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Web Framework Benchmarks

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Re: Web Framework Benchmarks

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do they rewrite ? Twitter did. Facebook didn't.

> Facebook didn't. You have no idea what you're talking about. Not only did they produce TWO different implementations of PHP (HHVM and Hack), a vast majority of their infrastructure is NOT in PHP (which is mostly reserved for the front-end/web tier).

I know. Still, cheaper than rewrite.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks

#112
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yep. It took me about six months to write a replacement of ActiveRecord with an identical API (for what was needed) that could scale to arbitrarily large number of writes Sorry to ask, would that be open sourced? >It was 5 application servers, 4 MongoDB servers for the timeline with some crazy data structures, one or two MySQL DBs. That is a little hard to warp my head around, because pre-A16z 500px was a long time…

> Sorry to ask, would that be open sourced? No. I would have if I owned the code personally, but it wasn't in the companies interests to open source it. > That is a little hard to warp my head around... I was there between was 2012—2013. The hardware wasn't bad, I don't remember the exact specs but it was colocated at a place in downtown TO on some decent but not crazy gear. It wasn't perfect, but it worked pretty we…

> No. I would have if I owned the code personally, but it wasn't in the companies interests to open source it.

Thanks, I just thought that might solve the ActiveRecord is slow problem.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks

#113
post #107
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes. I do have some familiarity with HCC - albeit limited to a hobby project rather than anything professional. It's interesting stuff but I'd argue that's a completely different target industry to the ones that would use any of the web frameworks in the discussed referenced benchmark. So not really on point to the question raised by the GP with regards to C vs the more rapid development frameworks like node. Not…

I don't have actual experience with HCC, it was just one random example. Embedded is one of my interests, so I do keep an eye on news about what is going on. On my case I would rather try to bend my answer to be either C++ with embedded STL or Pascal, failing that C as well, in spite of my prejudices against it. Hopefully they would at least allow C99. :)

I love Pascal (C++ less so but we all have our own personal preferences) however if you're targeting the web then you're definitely better off with C#, Java or Go* . You'd get similar language constructs while having a much richer ecosystem to develop in. Which was the point the GP was making with regards to development time verses request throughput. Only with the aforementioned you at least don't sacrifice that much in performance compared with node.

* I know Go gets a lot of hate because of its lack of generics and choice of error handling, but it's worth remembering that for web development you don't run into those particularly annoyances much.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a experienced java dev be less productive than a node js one?

Tooling, typing, boilerplate and contrasting to the library that is npm.

Vertx is polyglot, you can use js and npm if you like, so in this respect vertx can be more productive as it allows you too use the tool that works best for your problem, be it npm, maven, gradle or language: java, javascript, kotlin, etc...

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks

#115
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry to ask, would that be open sourced? No. I would have if I owned the code personally, but it wasn't in the companies interests to open source it. > That is a little hard to warp my head around... I was there between was 2012—2013. The hardware wasn't bad, I don't remember the exact specs but it was colocated at a place in downtown TO on some decent but not crazy gear. It wasn't perfect, but it worked pretty we…

> No. I would have if I owned the code personally, but it wasn't in the companies interests to open source it. Thanks, I just thought that might solve the ActiveRecord is slow problem.

It didn't solve the ActiveRecord is slow problem, it was marginally faster, but not a whole lot faster. What it solved was handling models over an arbitrary number of databases. Imagine billions of writes of a single model type across multiple databases. Imagine needing to join across databases and not knowing which DB a joined model would be in.

Re: Web Framework Benchmarks

#116
post #7

I had not checked these for a good long while. (Probably around round 10 or 11.) Looking back in on it now, holy MAN! C (C++) and Java. Wow. Even though I'm old, I'd sort of forgotten how speedy they can be. It's strange, because I actually work with Java and C in making streaming game engines. And you kind of get used to thinking in terms of millions on a set of hardware. So you think Java and C are slow. Then you r…

I find it very frustrating that Scala, a language that is entirely capable of running just as fast as Java, is full of frameworks that are relatively slow compared to the java frameworks. It has to be some sort of fixation on reinventing everything from scratch in order to fit into some idealized idiomatic scala way (ignoring the fact that there are a million different versions of "idiomatic" in the scala community).…

Do you have in mind these benchmarks?:

    play2-scala-slick-ne  60,588  14.3%
    play2-scala-slick     60,400  14.2%
("-ne" = netty, the other is Akka)

There's not that much difference? Or did the Netty version, get slower, because of refactorings done to support Akka?

Anyway I too feel frustrated that the Scala / Play Framework developers don't seem to focus so much on performance, but rather (it seems to me) on writing theoretically beautiful Scala code? I'd rather have something fast & simple like Vert.x, in Scala

Well, there's Vert.x + Scala, "only" 70 stars: https://github.com/vert-x3/vertx-lang-scala thugh. I wonder how Vert.x + Scala compares with Vert.x + Java, would have been really interesting to include in the benchmarks :- )

I suggested incl Vert.x & Scala in the benchmarks: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/framewor...

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