State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending • Hacker News Board

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#111

Post by fouc » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

sdenton4 wrote: post #83

With gdpr, I came to realize that (for better or worse) the internet is transitioning from a place outside of the law to a place subject to the union of all laws.

The Internet transitioned from a place that felt very 'underground' in the 80s/90s to this advertiser/data driven retain-every-piece-of-user-data world. It has moved from something that was sort of decentralized to something that is very centralized, particularly in the hands of large companies, so now we need laws to constrain those companies.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#112

Post by jack9 » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 4:55 AM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #50

jdavis703 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't strictly illegal in the U.S. due to the Citizens United decision. Because of free speech blah blah blah I can spend an unlimited amount of money for a cause or canidate as long as I don't coordinate with that campaign.

> Citizens United decision Ah yes, our era's Dred Scott decision.

Indeed, a terrible and obviously immoral decision by the supreme court to appease. How this has been downvoted so heavily, causes me concern.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#113

Post by CobrastanJorji » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:02 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #109

beaner wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that makes sense to me. Local businesses are much more likely to know the local laws. Google is everywhere, covering thousands of local places. It'd be hard to know all the different regulation.

Google is also an order of magnitude bigger than a local TV station. They have no excuse.

On the other hand, a local TV station only needs to know and comply with the election laws of their own city. Google needs to know and comply with the local laws of every city in the world.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#114

Post by bdcravens » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:09 AM UTC

sverige wrote: post #103

asfasgasg wrote: post #98

> At least some of the many payments making up these results are not properly documented, and from the looks of it, this could amount to willful negligence. If a company is operating in a state and taking millions for political ads, it really can’t be unaware of that state’s disclosure laws. Seems to be overstating the case just a tad. Less than a million, in total, for Google at least. That's two or three engineer-y…

OTOH, if Google did not willfully fail to follow the law, does that mean they are simply incompetent? Local TV stations find a way to pay attention enough to comply, but Google can't?

I'm thinking willful incompetence.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#115

Post by oasisbob » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:22 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #93

Wait, so if I want to publish a political ad online, which can be seen in Washington, I have to publish my address so any wacko can come and threaten myself and my family? I guess somehow it makes sense to people in Washington but certainly doesn't make sense to me.

Disclosure requirements for contributions to federal campaigns are similar.

Most states have voter rolls which are covered by open record laws, will release personal information on all registered voters. Address included.

I'm not sure why this law strikes you as so crazy. Most individuals aren't making independent political ad buys.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#116

Post by candiodari » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:29 AM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #105

sdenton4 wrote: post #83

With gdpr, I came to realize that (for better or worse) the internet is transitioning from a place outside of the law to a place subject to the union of all laws.

This sort of issue has cropped up since there started being commercial activity on the internet. If you try to start a company like ebay, you'll learn that means complying with every relevant local, national, and international law, for any item it's possible to sell, and updating the rules every times they change.

What do you mean ? Ebay isn't even subject to normal sales tax in Australia yet (will happen this July).

I mean it's changing, but these multinational companies have "bypassed" (ignored and gotten away with) normal sale laws for various reasons in so many ways.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#117

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:31 AM UTC

fouc wrote: post #111

sdenton4 wrote: post #83

With gdpr, I came to realize that (for better or worse) the internet is transitioning from a place outside of the law to a place subject to the union of all laws.

The Internet transitioned from a place that felt very 'underground' in the 80s/90s to this advertiser/data driven retain-every-piece-of-user-data world. It has moved from something that was sort of decentralized to something that is very centralized, particularly in the hands of large companies, so now we need laws to constrain those companies.

[deleted]

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#118

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:38 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #114

sverige wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, if Google did not willfully fail to follow the law, does that mean they are simply incompetent? Local TV stations find a way to pay attention enough to comply, but Google can't?

I'm thinking willful incompetence.

Is that a legal concept?

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#119

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:39 AM UTC

beaner wrote: post #108

sverige wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, if Google did not willfully fail to follow the law, does that mean they are simply incompetent? Local TV stations find a way to pay attention enough to comply, but Google can't?

Yes, that makes sense to me. Local businesses are much more likely to know the local laws. Google is everywhere, covering thousands of local places. It'd be hard to know all the different regulation.

So what? They’re still responsible for complying with the law.

Re: State of Washington sues Facebook and Google over failure to disclose spending

#120

Post by mulmen » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 5:42 AM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #113

untog wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is also an order of magnitude bigger than a local TV station. They have no excuse.

On the other hand, a local TV station only needs to know and comply with the election laws of their own city. Google needs to know and comply with the local laws of every city in the world.

This isn’t even remotely compelling. Companies have to comply with local laws. “We’re too big to follow the rules” is no excuse.

If you need an example (which you should not) I worked for a small (~100 employee) phone company and we complied with all tax laws nationwide at a federal, state, county and municipality level. That’s a lot of regulation. It was a lot of work. We did it. What’s Google’s excuse?