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GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

akr.am

111–120 of 162 posts

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#111
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I think using "open source" to mean "the source is open to the public" is as misguided as using "free software" to mean "the software is free of charge," but in practice there's a lot more ambiguity in the former, not the latter. I would disagree. Both the terms "open source" and "free software" existed prior to the open-source software movement. Either way, you don't get to co-opt the plain English mea…

I disagree with your disagreement. That's precisely how language works: we co-opt words and change their meaning all the time; this happens all the time with software, engineering and physics. Open source has come to mean something in the software development world (and it arguably never meant "the source is open to the public but they must pay for its use", so it's not even an actual subversion). Some companies now…

My point is that while, yes, terms of art are coined all the time, they don't get authority over plain English by virtue of existing. Sociologists don't get to say, "Well, that's not technically what gender means," when you can open up a dictionary and show that, yes, that is damn well exactly what gender means in English. I mean, yes, they do try to do that, but they don't actually have any authority to do so.

That some wish to draw a distinction from a term of art does not meant that all uses of that term must draw the same distinction or be considered a term of art. English, and indeed all natural languages, support words with multiple, often contradictory meanings. English, being defined by usage, does not care at all about any authority in language.

The words "free software" will essentially forever mean "software obtained without monetary cost" because that's what those words mean in plain English. That's the semantic meaning of combining that adjective with that noun. The fact that a second definition exists where "free software" is a compound word is mostly irrelevant. The fact that engineers have a specific meaning for "shear" doesn't mean I can't call my scissors "shears". That's why so many terms of art are invented whole-cloth and why acronyms as terms of art are so prevalent. It's precisely to avoid that contextual semantic collision that plain English doesn't give two shits about.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#112
post #2

> Both versions have their sources published on GitLab with the former having an MIT license and the latter a proprietary one which requires a paid subscription with GitLab. So, it is open source? Doesn't this fall under the adage of "free as in free speech, not as in free beer?"

the enterprise version is not opened source? big deal. gotta support free software somehow and that is a respectable way.

Besides, I heard that Gitlab as a company is in the black already (comparing to GitHub, which I believe is still in the red).

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#113
> Rebase merge requests before merge

> Approve Merge Requests

What!? This is not true. You can both rebase and approve merge requests with with Gitlab ce. You can even force semi-linear history. The webpage must be outdated - or did i misunderstood something?

Source: I do it every day.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We went Gitlab to Bitbucket + Jira. Quite a bit more power, for less money (even after paying for cloud testers).

I think the Atlassian stack "wins" in the ~200-500 users range for enterprise companies but price doubles if you want the "cloud edition" (read: run on more than one vm). I asked for a few quotes of the gitlab EEU (ultimate) edition and found prices competitive.

You should check out RhodeCode as well. It integrates with Redmine/Jira/Jenkins/TeamCity etc quite well, and it's suited to work for teams of 100-1000+ with enterprise feature focus

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#115

So it's not financially viable to run such companies without trick like these. If our financial system does not allow for companies like Github/Gitlab who provided positive value to society at large to sustain then perhaps the finanical system is to blame. About Github/Gitlab employees, I can provide them housing, food, and some soft benefits. Can they work for free so that Github/Gitlab become sustainable? Why gover…

The acquisition was the almost inevitable outcome of decisions that github alone made:

- comping employees with options and/or RSUs;

- taking $350m of VC money.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#116
post #106

There's honestly nothing new here. GitLab calls itself open core because only the Community Edition (CE) is open-source and the Enterprise Edition is source-available. Anyone, after five minutes of looking at GitLab.com, knows this. They aren't hiding it and it's already incredibly public. They've even publicly talk about their 100+ user-relevant rule for features that decides what CE doesn't get [1] I don't understa…

Furthermore, Gitlab has a brilliant documentation which makes very clear which features are available in which version of the program. This distinction goes even into the documentation of the (JSON) API. What is advertised as open source is really open source, you can browse it yourself. Find it at https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce -- btw, this is a ~3GB repository, afaik you won't be able to host such a large…

Also the issues are all on public and anyone can comment and see what the devs are saying about it.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#118

I've been a user of gitlab for 4yrs+. Its a great tool and a nice alternative to github for all us crazy "i want to have code on-prem" folks. That being said gitlab ce and its relationship to ee is more and more complicated. What started out at missing select features is now full out armaggedon of lacking features. See latest releases and youll see that all the cool stuff is comming out only to ee. Whats even worse,…

A couple years ago I exchanged email with the gitlab ceo on the idea of developing a few huge macro features separately from gitlab. Basically a strategy focused around using gitlab as a customer acquisition channel to sell other related products. He correctly pointed out this meant having more than one product, instead of two versions of the same product. At the time, I strong suspected mixed feelings like yours would crop up among their customer base. I understand why he went the route he did, but I still think they made an error. Of course, it's his company, so I can't be too critical. However when I think gitlab I think 'github knockoff' not 'open source heroes'. Maybe gogs or someone similar could follow that monetization strategy.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#119
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your disagreement. That's precisely how language works: we co-opt words and change their meaning all the time; this happens all the time with software, engineering and physics. Open source has come to mean something in the software development world (and it arguably never meant "the source is open to the public but they must pay for its use", so it's not even an actual subversion). Some companies now…

My point is that while, yes, terms of art are coined all the time, they don't get authority over plain English by virtue of existing. Sociologists don't get to say, "Well, that's not technically what gender means," when you can open up a dictionary and show that, yes, that is damn well exactly what gender means in English. I mean, yes, they do try to do that, but they don't actually have any authority to do so. That…

> The words "free software" will essentially forever mean "software obtained without monetary cost" because that's what those words mean in plain English.

Well, "software" is a relatively new word, so I'm not sure about "forever" (is software a soft ware?). And within the short lifespan of this word, the term Free Software in the technically accepted jargon has been in use for a really long time (at least early 80s, apparently).

Yes, non-technical people won't understand what "free software", "open source", or "source" means for that matter. They don't understand what a license means in terms of software either. They don't know or care about hacker culture, or the history of computing. That's ok.

Language has meaning within communities. This is our community. GitLab, GitHub, Microsoft, and most HN readers do understand the mainstream meanings -- within our community -- of "Free Software" and "Open Source". This is just like when physicists say a nuclear reactor goes "critical" they immediately understand the term, even when to a layperson it sounds scary and in common language "critical" means something else.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#120
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me service availability over "source availability" any day. The gitlab paas product has shocking performance and uptime.

Why not have both and host it yourself?

Maintaining a GitLab server takes time.
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