The truth is that in "gig" based economies guilds and unions are essential(portability of seniority, benefits, etc). If done right it benefits both the employer and the low and high end of workers.
Also, the truth is that in tech this hasn't caught on because, we just like to think we are special.
The great video game exodus
111–120 of 149 posts
Re: The great video game exodus
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work in the game development all my life, and I will fight against unionizing with all that I have. Unions, above all, help those on the lower part of the bell curve. They commoditize labor, introduce standard metrics, push towards mediocrity and destroy competition between individual contributors. I am now on a third week of crunch, without weekends, all to make it to the Steam sale; something that a union would f…
" I am now on a third week of crunch, without weekends, all to make it to the Steam sale; something that a union would fight against." No, a union would just make sure you're actually paid for it, instead of being coerced into giving away your life for absolutely nothing. "I can also negotiate quite well on my own behalf with employees. If I was in a union, I would, through involvement in collective negotiation, effe…
I was in the game industry for twelve years and the GP's comments illustrate why it would be so difficult for unions to form, especially if it included software developers - so many think they are the ne plus ultra of developer but somehow they are not John Carmack famous or giving away the source code to previous game engines for people to learn from because they write something revolutionary every few years ala Carmack.
Re: The great video game exodus
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentie…
Working in Iceland gave me a weird close-up perspective of unions in a somewhat different context. Icelanders and other Europeans are free to choose whether or not to be in a union (at least in my industry, which is very broadly labelled "office workers"). However, non-European foreigners are required to get the "opinion" of a union on the work visa form, and of course the union won't provide an opinion unless you're…
> a strike that had nothing at all to do with my own working conditions
Why would you think that? There's a reason that secondary strikes have been made illegal in the US, and that reason is not "they don't work".
Re: The great video game exodus
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looks are often a prerequisite, particularly for women, but they aren't valued more than acting ability. There are scores of models who are more attractive than your average big name actor who fail to break into Hollywood because they can't act.
If most Hollywood movies featured mostly ordinary looking actors but with excellent acting, then I would've agreed with you that the acting ability is valued more. There are a few genius actors that made their way into Hollywood because of acting, not looks. But they are an exception to the rule. The vast majority of movies are mediocre and feature rather attractive actors (actresses in particular) whose acting is ve…
The fact is, there are way more attractive people than there are talented actors. So it's easy for Hollywood to make being attractive a prerequisite, and still get good actors
Re: The great video game exodus
#115I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…
> I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry.
I know people in both industries and guess what. You are so utterly correct.
Re: The great video game exodus
#116Sadly, most of the video game industry is a crappy place to work. I speak from experience here, having been the lead game engine developer in a studio owned by one of the largest publishers. I don't want to out them, so I'm being vague on purpose. There is little work life balance. No matter what happens, no matter how many people you destroy, you will do whatever it takes to ship in time for the Christmas season. If…
As a counter point - I work in a studio owned by one of the largest publishers in the world(I'm a C++ programmer), working exclusively on the biggest AAA titles known to everyone, and it's the opposite of what you described. The work-life balance is great, most of the days I come in at 8 and leave at 4, "crunch" as such only exists maybe for a week before larger releases, but for me that means a week of 9-hour days, it isn't too bad. I'm actually getting above the EU-mandated paid time off(28 paid days off a year) + obviously unlimited paid sick leave, year of maternity/patterning leave if I need it, gym membership, discounted bike scheme/free metro tickets...
Sure, the money is slightly better in other companies but it's not too bad here - I've only been in the industry 4 years but I'm about to put a deposit down for a house later this year and buy something with my partner.
And au contraire to the article - we have 1 person with 25 years at this company, a few with 20 years, several with 15 years and loads with 10 years at the same company. People generally stay longer here. So yes, I guess like you said - not every studio is like this.
Re: The great video game exodus
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentie…
>The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. >Generally we need to move those solutions into less partial laws and courts, instead of creating another unchecked center of power over workers. Those most in need of the labor rights and respect unions traditionally afford are often those who have almost…
> Those most in need of the labor rights and respect unions traditionally afford are often those who have almost no access to the legal system.
This seems like a powerful concern in theory but the facts make me more optimistic. I haven't found, say, OSHA to be toothless in practice, the DOL routinely brings aggressive overtime violations cases, and enforcement of the civil rights act against particularly southern hotels and gas stations by federal courts are all powerful counterexamples.
They are not comprehensively solved problems, but clearly demonstrate that organs of state power can and have been used in defense of marginalized groups. I'd say especially Federal courts, but several agencies have done impressive work too.
Re: The great video game exodus
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tried to address that a few comments up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17218381 Sorry it's a wall of text. I suck at brevity. In my defense it's a complex topic and I'm trying to credit some good points on both sides. And ok, I was too flip in my last comment, frustrated that its parent seemed to completely ignore my main point. At their best, maybe some unions do still work that way. Many don't though. Most b…
Legal structures are meaningless without the political and economic power to enforce them. But beyond that, it’s about values. You can’t start with a business culture that rewards competitive greed and narcissism over empathy and cooperation and expect it to suddenly start acting against its own core ethics.
Jelly raised this above too. Pasting my reply at the end here.
But I agree with you that values are central. I'd back more investigations to uncover corporations with internal cultures more like Enron and root out bad actors in such places earlier, if we could do that fairly.
> Those most in need of the labor rights and respect unions traditionally afford are often those who have almost no access to the legal system.
This seems like a powerful concern in theory but the facts make me optimistic. I haven't found, say, OSHA to be toothless in practice, the DOL routinely brings aggressive overtime violations cases, and enforcement of the civil rights act against particularly southern hotels and gas stations by federal courts are all powerful counterexamples.
They are not comprehensively solved problems, but clearly demonstrate that organs of state power can and have been used in defense of marginalized groups. I'd say especially Federal courts, but several agencies have done impressive work too.
Re: The great video game exodus
#119I read the whole article and I didn’t get a sense of exodus at all — its just a steady and high rate of churn in an industry with surplus new talent willing to burn it all in order to ship on time.
Re: The great video game exodus
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal. Not to detract from early labor movements, the fights for basic workplace safety and overtime in the twentie…
"The cornerstone of the case against unions isn't that we should stop respecting people, it's that unions are often no longer the best way to accomplish that goal." But those making that argument never bring up a workable alternative for accomplishing that goal, other than everyone should quit their jobs. "I'm glad we had unions, but they also have a dark side, where they can function more like a corrupt cartel over…
> I cannot take this argument seriously when the management side of things is acting in the exact same manner, and no one seems to bat an eye.
Because it isn't the case. Short of actual slavery, management does not hold a monopoly on an individual's employment. If someone's employer is crap, they can move to another job. If they don't like their industry, they can try going into a different one. At least here in the US, labour is in relatively short supply.