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Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
111–120 of 222 posts
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s a lot of focus on how this relates to the happiness of men, but generally speaking hookups and pets aren’t an emotionally fulfilling alternative to a family for women, either. This is a worrying trend for everyone. Maybe a minority will be happier, but most are going to be lonelier and most likely more mentally ill. I suppose with legalization of marijuana we might not see a steady increase in alcoholism, but…
>Let’s just give them a UBI check and pretend everything is fine. That has nothing to do with anything being discussed here.
It does insofar that UBI is touted as the cutting-edge social panacea of these times, but is simply a wealth redistribution scheme that doesn't address the atomization issues plaguing our society. UBI alone won't save us- more solutions need to be pursued.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn't make any sense. Monogamous relationships remove 2 people from the dating marked, non-monogamous ones remove none.
Exclusive relationships remove 2 or more whether they are committed monogamy, committed polygamy (polygyny or polyandry), or committed two-sided polyamory (the last seems the most rarely attested, if it is a thing at all outside of fiction, and is included only for the same of excessive completeness.) Committed polygamy does so asymmetrically with regard to gender, particularly, a committed polygynous relationship re…
"committed two-sided polyamory"
That's the one I'm talking about. I'm living it for 10 years now and know many living it too.
The public awareness doesn't seem to be high in that case, but I have the impression most monogamy-proponents simply leave it out because it falsifies their points entirely.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#114> Did you know that teens are having substantially less sex than the previous few generations? It’s true! And generally interpreted as a good thing. But Ronson suggests that this is in large part because porn is replacing sex, and, in fact, making real sex with real woman seem alienating and difficult. Further down the author specifically mentions the correlation/causality fallacy but there are surely other explanati…
There’s also been a shift due to online and apps that give women an unlimited choice of men while giving the majority of men nearly no choice — the dating world for most men has become a lot more difficult over the last couple of years. I see my male friends really struggle and I see my female friends have unlimited options.
Women have always had the upper hand in terms of choosing a mate. What's changed now is that their selection pool has gotten a lot larger than just the people they encounter and interact with in person.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#115"Did you know that erectile dysfunction rates have risen tenfold among young men since the rise of free porn? Correlation does not prove causality but it’s hard to imagine that those two things aren’t somehow related." I'm extremely skeptical that it's caused by porn. More men are on Propecia than in the past. Probably more anti-depressants, too. And it seems to me that people have really ratcheted up the anxiety in…
> I'm extremely skeptical that it's caused by porn. More men are on Propecia than in the past. Probably more anti-depressants, too. And it seems to me that people have really ratcheted up the anxiety in general, over the last 20 years or so.
That is also a little harsh, but I agree. Most likely they did not have the means to collect data on it rather than the means at which they do so today.
It also could be that it was not considered manly to talk about your feelings 20 years ago...
You also did not access to hundreds of thousands of naked men and woman within seconds with a simple google search 20 years ago, whereas you had to find yourself some "contraband" if you were under 18 ,back then.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#116> Did you know that teens are having substantially less sex than the previous few generations? It’s true! And generally interpreted as a good thing. But Ronson suggests that this is in large part because porn is replacing sex, and, in fact, making real sex with real woman seem alienating and difficult. Further down the author specifically mentions the correlation/causality fallacy but there are surely other explanati…
There’s also been a shift due to online and apps that give women an unlimited choice of men while giving the majority of men nearly no choice — the dating world for most men has become a lot more difficult over the last couple of years. I see my male friends really struggle and I see my female friends have unlimited options.
> There’s also been a shift due to online and apps that give women an unlimited choice of men while giving the majority of men nearly no choice
How can that be? Why would it be empowering for one gender but not the other? What would the underlying reason be to explain that kind of social phenomenon?
> I see my male friends really struggle and I see my female friends have unlimited options.
I can counter your anecdata with my own...many of the women I know are having great difficulty finding men online because, in their experience, they're very picky. Speaking as a man, I would say I've also become more picky over time, not less. Here we're trading localized experience, but I think that there should be an accountable cause that would explain only men being adversely impacted.
I don't see an obvious reason why online dating would make things harder for men but not harder for women and vice versa. I think the broader trend in online dating is that it's harder for unattractive people to find partners, regardless of sexual identity or preference; conversely it seems to be getting progressively easier for attractive people to find partners. People are presented with significantly more options, which makes me hypothesize that they're willing to say no to many people they would otherwise settle for. I don't think that's particularly harder on men than it is on women.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#117I was under the impression that the size of the online porn industry is in the billions. And yet, the article states that Thylmann bought pretty much every competitor with just $362 million. That doesn't add-up. What am I missing? Are the rumors for the industry's size overstated?
> I was under the impression that the size of the online porn industry is in the billions. And yet, the article states that Thylmann bought pretty much every competitor with just $362 million. That doesn't add-up. What am I missing? Are the rumors for the industry's size overstated?
Maybe he just bought up the competing free content sites for $362 million. Maybe the production companies made billions in the past when the industry was more profitable, who knows what they make now.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Meanwhile 4chan & company has taken to calling him “Juden Peterstein”...so it seems his appeal is primarily limited to the kinda-sorta-far-right. Personally, seeing the guy talk makes me feel sleepy.
Peterson is fervently pro free speech and against politically correct culture, so unsurprising 4chan is smitten. He’s not right wing himself though, he’s a classical liberal with libertarian leanings. I think of him more like Bill Maher without the comedy.
Interesting. I fit more the mold you’re describing myself, maybe I shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss him.
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#119The widespread availability of pornography probably does drive home several extra layers of resentment in someone whose personal track record with courting, dating, and sex has been unsatisfying. At a surface level, it seems to demonstrate that sex -- and not just fruits of performances thereof -- is a transaction, and that the attributes that they bring to the marketplace (appearance, aesthetic, attitude, interests,…
"Declining to date someone because they're fat is now firmly seen as a bullying tactic" What? Where I come from you're allowed to date who you deem to be attractive. Nobody cares if you don't date anyone because they're fat, dumb, small, poor or what not.
Right. Personal dating preferences are sarosanct. There's been a tremendous effort over the past 50 years to replace freedom of association with egalitarian social engineering, and it's at dating where society has drawn a firm line and said "This far! No further!".
While there are activists out there attempting to use the standard social shaming toolkit to influence dating, their tactics won't work. Reproduction is too deep-seated a drive to tamper with that way. And fortunately, defeat here will blunt the entire array of tools.
It's as if an entire generation is hearing this internal monologue: "You mean that if I want you to consider me a 'woke' and good person, I need to have sex with this person I don't consider attractive? To hell with you and your morality then."
Re: Pornography and the Butterfly Effect
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not everything is fine in moderation. Mainlining sulfuric acid, for example. Whether porn consumption is fine in moderation is a subject of fair debate. Unfortunately, the science on this is not sufficiently clear.
I am not following that absurdity reduction. In the context of discussion you could compare it with alcohol not sulfuric acid. Alcohol creates concrete bad outcomes when for instance driving. I think there is a lot less people watching porn while driving than driving under influence. Alcohol makes you prone to some kinds of cancers, porn not much. Watching porn is at least order of magnitude safer than drinking alcoh…
I think porn, like opiates and other drugs, are hard to do "just in moderation". There is a powerful dopamine effect that pushes one to consume more and more. But even simply addressing the term moderate, what does that even mean? How much? What is the unintended consequence of getting sexual satisfaction from porn vs real life long term relationship?
I would venture that unlimited availability of high quality sexual stimulation leads many to delay pursuing (with all the associated pain and challenge) real relationship. Especially for those who it is more difficult to find a mate.
Read up on countless discussions about how abstaining from getting sexual gratification from porn leads one to become more motivated to go out on dates, look for a partner, be more confident in approaching women etc etc.
Also, if you look into the "no fap" discussions, many report feeling a strong drive to be more productive in other areas of their life. See a powerful drive to go to the gym and workout, have a healthier lifestyle, easier ability to focus for long periods of time on intense work etc.
I think the people here dismissing the point of view that porn can be very harmful to so many are simply selfish, they are defending their own habits, and they are not considering the full context of what "no fap" and abstaining from porn completely can have an immensely beneficial effect on many people.