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U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

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Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#111
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It worked fine. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Americans got screwed and no banking executives went to jail. It didn't work. It's one of the reasons Bitcoin was created, per the first transaction in the blockchain.

No one really went to jail because they didn't break any laws. They fucked up, but not in an illegal manner.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#112
post #108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone converts their crypto to USDT at the same time (which is what happens during big crashes) they MUST print more Tether or the price will increase. This doesn't make sense. You don't "convert" other cryptocurrencies to USDT, you sell your cryptocurrencies to people who have USDT. If there's a big sell pressure on the cryptocurrency, people want to move back to dollars, and there are not enough USD(T) then…

It makes perfect sense. If many people are trying to BUY USDT (increasing demand for USDT) the price of USDT will increase. Tether tries to prevent this by printing more USDT (increasing supply). They are not "magicking" Dollars, they are magicking a commodity (USDT) pegged to Dollar. I'm not saying that I'm a big Tether fan or anything. However to say that it "doesn't make sense" when they print more Tether during m…

> It makes perfect sense. If many people are trying to BUY USDT (increasing demand for USDT) the price of USDT will increase.

Why? It's worth exactly one dollar. Which they have in an account. That's the point. The price of the other cryptocurrency will come down, and the value of USDT compared to that cryptocurrency will indeed rise, as it should when people want to sell to a market where there's more demand on dollars than the asset.

> They are not "magicking" Dollars, they are magicking a commodity (USDT) pegged to Dollar.

But it's supposed to be pegged to the dollar by a real dollar backing. In the scenario you're describing, it's a floating asset not backed by anything, with a value maintained purely by supply manipulation, and being issued to prop up an asset price. The opposite of what it's supposed to be.

> However to say that it "doesn't make sense" when they print more Tether during market crashes is false.

It still doesn't. I mean, it makes sense from a "lets conjure up some money to prop up the price of BTC" angle, sure, but that's not the same as it making sense for something that's backed by cash on a 1:1 basis. Tether should only be issued when people give dollars to the tether foundation. That's the claim on their front page, and the basis of their peg.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#113
post #94
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Day traders use Tether a lot, even during bull runs. Because the market never closes, many full-time traders put their crypto all into tether when they're done trading for the day.

Why not just put it into USD when they are done for the day?

Crypto/Fiat transactions are much more expensive than Crpyto/Crypto transactions. Why impact your bottom line if you don't need to?

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#114
post #61

>"The Justice Department has opened a criminal probe into whether traders are manipulating the price of Bitcoin and other digital currencies, dramatically ratcheting up U.S. scrutiny of red-hot markets that critics say are rife with misconduct, according to four people familiar with the matter. [...] Federal prosecutors are working with the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, a financial regulator that oversees der…

> Why isn't there a better source for this than "four people"?

The same reason that (except for actual indictments and subsequent court filings, and the extraordinary fact of the appointment of a special prosecutor) we get most—often later confirmed as accurate—info on the Mueller probe through similar sources outside DoJ: the DoJ doesn't leak much but a criminal investigation naturally touches people outside the DoJ that are less prone to avoiding leaking. Those can be people in the agency giving a criminal referral, which this reporting suggests would likely have come from the CFTC, or they can be people connected with witnesses (including, but not limited to, those who have been given notice indicating that they are subjects or targets of the investigation.)

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#115
post #84
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its highly unlikely that any of those 4 people are DOJ employees. More likely 4 traders that have been interviewed and confirmed as much to the journalist.

This is even worse than if it was DOJ leak. We would be dealing with a rumor started by people under investigation for manipulating bitcoin prices...

Being interviewed in the course of an investigation means you are a potential witness, not necessarily a target or even subject of the investigation.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention steal money from the public with QE.

It's interesting that bitcoin (and crypto maximalists in general) repeatedly harp on and attack QE as if it was the end of democracy itself. QE is just another tool for monetary policy designed to combat deflation and increase available capital supply as a stimulus measure. Because QE belongs to the school of thought that the economy is driven by consumer spending as opposed to consumer savings. Could you please elab…

Sure. QE is buying stock with printed money, inflating stock prices. People with lots of stocks get inflated value. When the inflated value leaves the stock market, it has an effect of deflating the value of the USD. It's a slow inflationary method of distributing public funds to the rich in the stock market, while creating market manipulation tools to coerce stock-driven companies into essentially being proxy government entities, since a large percentage of their value can be decided with 'monetary policy'(leading to things like google's pentagon drone ai collaboration).

I also believe SV companies are lining up to IPO because of this blank check.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#117
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was a problem redeeming Tether for USD, you'd expect that the market price distortion of Tether. But it hasn't[1] https://www.tradingview.com/chart/?symbol=POLONIEX:USDTUSD >they've created 2.8 BILLION USDT Absolute numbers are meaningless and less eye catching when they're compared to the entire market. 2.8 ~ ~ Billion ~ ~ USDT is only 0.5%-0.8% of the market. Do you really think that a 300-500 billion doll…

> USDT is only 0.5%-0.8% of the market. This is false. Market cap is a meaningless statistic when applied to cryptocurrencies. If I create a billion 'FOOCoins' and sell one to a friend for $1, FOOCoin now has a 1 billion market cap, but only a single dollar has changed hands. He sells it back to me for $2, now FOOCoin has a cap of $2 billion! With only $3 having changed hands. This is clearly an exaggerated scenario,…

> If I create a billion 'FOOCoins' and sell one to a friend for $1, FOOCoin now has a 1 billion market cap, but only a single dollar has changed hands. He sells it back to me for $2, now FOOCoin has a cap of $2 billion! With only $3 having changed hands.

Only $1 has changed hands in this.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#118
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central banks are in the business of market manipulation via interest rates, and money supply. This is to control growth and inflation so that business cycles are smoothed out to a degree.

The problem with that approach is that market cycles serve important purpose: they faciliate best allocation of our resources by ensuring that inefficient companies will go bankrupt. Smoothing those cycles out enables poorly managed companies to stay in business for way too long. Then, since there's a limit to a market manipulation that central banks can do we end up with one huge crisis, like Great Depression, or 20…

Plenty of poorly managed companies are still able to stay in business despite economic downturns because they have inertia.

Not to mention that, businesses going under means people without jobs. Lots of businesses going under at the same time means lots of people without jobs, and fewer companies able to take them on. That's a bad thing, no matter how you slice it.

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#119
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USDT is only 0.5%-0.8% of the market. This is false. Market cap is a meaningless statistic when applied to cryptocurrencies. If I create a billion 'FOOCoins' and sell one to a friend for $1, FOOCoin now has a 1 billion market cap, but only a single dollar has changed hands. He sells it back to me for $2, now FOOCoin has a cap of $2 billion! With only $3 having changed hands. This is clearly an exaggerated scenario,…

> If I create a billion 'FOOCoins' and sell one to a friend for $1, FOOCoin now has a 1 billion market cap, but only a single dollar has changed hands. He sells it back to me for $2, now FOOCoin has a cap of $2 billion! With only $3 having changed hands. Only $1 has changed hands in this.

Well true, in aggregate. But we may have used up to three different notes :)

Re: U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation

#120
The mechanics of manipulating price are just too easy not to do it. The wash trading is clearly so bad on many exchanges that I bet there are agreements with the miners to recuperate losses to trading fees. It is in all parties interest to prop the price up this way so why wouldn't they do it. So many sketchy things get ignored because they prop the price up.

The USDT situation will get interesting eventually. Somebody made a spreadsheet of non-fiat volume of cryptocurrencies.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pIrTYpJZrGbeI9QTIWGw...

Basically the fate of many shitcoins are tied together. My thought is that when USDT finally gets revealed as totally fraudulent the whole crypto house of cards crashes.

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