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Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

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Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#111

Post by chapium »

avs733 wrote: post #47
chapium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Brainwashed” is a bit harsh. We put up with this because it’s necessary to work within the constraints of the system.

I grew up on the coasts and for a long time would have believed that. People might hate the system but they will comply and work within it. Living in the midwest has changed my mind, here people need the system to be true because it is the basis for their entire way of seeing the world. They listen to Rush adn to Fox News...and they accept it at a philisophical level. They rely on being told it because otherwise they…

“It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario.”

What are the other options? Most dont choose their health insurance based on belief in one system or another.

I agree there are plenty in the midwest, with conservative views, who believe in conservatism to unhealthy levels, no thanks to the crack pots they listen to on the radio.

The only person I’ve heard who felt the american healthcare system was the best in te world was in a speech by GW Bush. His speech was answered with silence because the audience was in such shock.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#112

Post by ne9xt »

lr4444lr wrote: post #105
spsrich wrote: post #22

Any parent has similar stories. Consumer law does not seem to apply to doctors and hospitals. Imagine if you took your car into the shop - there is no price list, they won't give you an estimate, and for weeks after they send you random bills without indicating what it's for? This affects everybody in the US, and I don't understand why it's allowed to continue, except the medical industry has bought off all the polit…

That may be changing soon: https://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/practice-management...

* in 2021

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#113

Post by Meekro »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

I've never met anyone (of either party) who thinks that stories like this are acceptable. The issue, as always, is how do we fix it? Pointing to European democracies merely shows that it can be done, it doesn't necessarily offer a blueprint for how to make it happen in a country with very different size and culture.

Bernie Sanders' "medicare for all" is the plan I've seen get the most support. If we got single payer healthcare, it would probably happen that way. It would cost $1.4 trillion per year[1], which is more than everything the government currently spends outside of entitlement programs. Adding this much spending without raising revenue would more than double the annual deficit.

"Tax the rich to pay for it," Bernie says! Okay, sounds good. His supporters will point to how the top marginal tax rate in the 1950s was 91%[2], and everything was great during that post-war boom. Here's the problem: regardless of the tax laws or rates, the US federal tax revenue has always been 15-20% of GDP[3] (we are currently at 17.3% of GDP). This figure has not changed since 1945, even as the tax law has been wildly changed many times over. That's not to say that nothing can ever change this figure -- it is different in other countries after all. But numerous attempts to change it by manipulating marginal tax rates have failed, and there's no reason to think that Bernie's tax-the-rich plan will do any better.

[1] http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/12/news/economy/sanders-medicar...

[2] http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauser%27s_law

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#114

Post by antihero »

nickjj wrote: post #33
toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

It's because most people in the US are brainwashed (note: I live in the US) into thinking paying ~$450 / month per adult for basic health insurance with high deductibles is a bargain because it "saves" them from $100,000+ hospital bills in an emergency scenario. Meanwhile they are still losing ~40% of their income to taxes if they own a small business with no insurance applied. The messed up thing is, the US also off…

The thing that also confuses me about your insurance is that it doesn't even seem to cover the whole amount? I mean what the fuck.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#115

Post by jhall1468 »

justherefortart wrote: post #93

Just don't pay it. That's the solution. Hospitals have these bullshit inflated fees, once they accept the insurance payout that is all they're getting from me. They're all "non-profits" that scam the system by writing all this shit off as goodwill or bad debts.

Yeah, they write it off as a bad debt then you end up with it on your credit report for 7.5 years. Good call.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#116

Post by ceejayoz »

maxerickson wrote: post #37
avs733 wrote: post #15

"Hoboken University Medical Center, where Pell was seen, declined to comment on the bill. The hospital did, according to Pell, reverse the entire balance after Vox began inquiring about the fees." I'll bet the hospital sees that as 'fixing the situation' and all I am left wondering is how many other people don't have Vox reporters sending emails for the same type of treatment. I'm hoping the CMS plan [0] to require p…

I doubt it, hospitals were already required to make those prices available, the change is that they have to make them available on the internet. While hospitals are already required under guidelines developed by CMS to either make publicly available a list of their standard charges, or their policies for allowing the public to view a list of those charges upon request, CMS is updating its guidelines to specifically r…

> While hospitals are already required under guidelines developed by CMS to either make publicly available a list of their standard charges...

This requirement is useless, though. The "standard charges" don't reflect reality. My wife receives regular infusions in an infusion center. They bill $3k to insurance each time. Insurance pays about $400, which the hospital happily accepts. That $3k number is what an uninsured patient would be asked to pay, and it's the number they'll list as the standard charge, but it's complete, invented bullshit.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#117

Post by politics531 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #9

How can people read and hear about stories like this, and even possibly think it's OK or even normal? How do lawmakers in the USA convince people that this is acceptable? I have never directly paid a single cent for healthcare, and neither has anyone I know. When I had to get 6 stitches in my forehead at 2 AM on a Sunday morning, it cost me nothing. When my friend needed to get the tip of his finger reattached, it co…

The thing that is often hard to understand about the United States is that many Americans hate each other, and many hate the non-Americans that live here even more. We aren't so much a melting-pot, where a single culture emerges from disparate ones living together, as we are an arena with enclaves of very separate, very antagonistic cultures that happen to live in the same country.

It is often very difficult to convince these groups, especially the economically prosperous ones, to contribute to a system that helps the others, even to their own detriment. The rich don't want to pay for healthcare for the poor, the conservatives don't want to pay for healthcare for illegal immigrants, the mid-westerners don't want to capitulate to the coastal-elite agenda, progressives have zero respect for the values of conservatives and on and on. There are cultural lines drawn, and crossing those lines is nearly unthinkable to many Americans, even if it costs them their health.

American culture is broken and divided, most people can see that but they think that the other groups are the problem, and I'm not sure we will make much progress on our massive problems unless something changes with it.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#118

Post by Cthulhu_ »

mfoy_ wrote: post #85
Ensorceled wrote: post #45

I recently had a spot appear in my vision. Went to my GP same day, the receptionist called around to get me into a local optometrist who determined it was a detached retina, she called and got me into the local hospital as an emergency case. It was busy but I got my first treatment that evening. The entire journey, my green OHIP card was all I needed, no insurance forms, no pre-approvals, no extra charges. 5 hospital…

You forgot: 3. Canadians pay for their health care in tax, anyways. (However: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadian... )

There's still 5% of the US budget being spent on health care: https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/trumpdiscpie_la...

Of course, over ten times as much is spent on the military. How can a country with no enemies nearby justify spending 60% of their budget on the military? Especially given how the only ones hostile to them are the ones they pissed off.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#119

Post by maxerickson »

clarkmoody wrote: post #96
21 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually work? Won't they detain you and call the police like a shop or restaurant would if you don't pay the bill?

You forgot the "They must treat you by law" part. You are effectively coercing them into treating you when you walk in the door.

To be fair, it's society coercing them. Using a complicated system of certification and reimbursement rather than guns.

Re: Emergency room patients can face steep bills even when treatment is declined

#120

Post by lr4444lr »

21 wrote: post #66
Talyen42 wrote: post #39

Hospital corporations and insurance corporations are not your friend. You shouldn't have to do this in a first world country, but: * Go to the ER without ID * (optional) Ask how much it will cost * (optional) They do not give prices, as a matter of policy * They must treat you by law * Afterwards, offer a cash payment you deem reasonable * They will accept or decline it Transaction complete. For non-emergency care an…

Does this actually work? Won't they detain you and call the police like a shop or restaurant would if you don't pay the bill?

Interesting question. I can't find anything online about a hospital invoking Shopkeeper's Privilege, but chances are they might try to, and even if the police would eventually release you, your identity would surely be discoverable by the hospital. I don't think the OP is giving safe advice.
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