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Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

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Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#111

Post by bluedevil2k »

PostOnce wrote: post #103
bluedevil2k wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2018 and you're criticizing a site for not running well with JS disabled. You're the one actively deciding to make websites harder to use, why should they design the site for you?

It doesn't take a lot of genius, time, or money to set a link w/ url parameters or use a standard html form for e.g. upvoting or comment submission, and then override that with javascript for fancier UI / AJAX / avoid redirects, etc -- i.e., extra polish, rather than it being the only option and the site just becomes nonfunctional instead of degrading gracefully. This benefits more than just one tiny group of users:…

You're thinking as a developer and not as a business. A website that works perfectly well for 99% of visitors and adds the pizazz to keep them on the site is the goal.

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#112

Post by teach »

josefresco wrote: post #88
bdefore wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which not useful if you prefer to lurk rather than login or use incognito/firefox focus to browse.

This is why I never saw the setting to disable the app prompt. Reddit tracks every single action on their site (no duh) and I don't feel like being monitored when I'm on the toilet looking for LULZ

For the record, I'm sure they track you just as much even if you've never created an account.

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#113

Post by TeMPOraL »

Karunamon wrote: post #109
TeMPOraL wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad engineering in 2018 is still bad engineering. JS can be used to enhance the experience, and even build things otherwise impossible in the browser, and it's totally justified. But taking the newest, shinest web application framework and turning what's a tree of regular web documents into a web application, with data unaccessible if you don't run the entirety of its JS? That's just wrong.

At the risk of snark I don't have a clear way around, your definition of "good engineering" appears to be the same one that thinks a modern toilet is no better than a hole in the ground. Nobody that pays for developer time in 2018 is going to optimize their site for people that go out of their way to willfully turn off part of the stack. It's not gonna happen. Effort for no reward. The protocol you describe, just a b…

I turn off a part of the stack (or rather, run it on a whitelist), because people are using wrong parts of the stack for wrong things.

If you use the right parts of the stack for the right things, the result is a lean, accessible and interoperable piece of software. That's what the Internet was designed for. Alas, few people care, and in particular, interoperability is actively being opposed.

RE the toilet example, current webdev is more like refusing to build toilets in apartments and instead building them into car seats, because it's 2018, everyone has a car and a driver's license (or, rather, everyone in the population we want to monetize).

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#114

Post by technofiend »

superkuh wrote: post #70

I started using reddit in 2008. Although I doubt it was intentional reddit was a refuge from the "Best viewed with Javascript" modern web for many years. It worked just fine to browse and read with no JS enabled and was very snappy and low resource usage that way. Sure, you had to toggle JS back on to vote or post but that was easy enough. I left just before they pushed out the redesign due their increased censorship…

I started using it after slashdot, digg and so on descended into noise and in particular after digg's universally hated redesign. There too site owners were deaf to user complaints. Reddit seems bent on learning the same lesson.

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#116

Post by michel__ »

baby wrote: post #63

A day before the re-design announcement I was explaining to a friend why Digg died and why Reddit would never dare re-designing their page. Oh boy was I wrong.

You make it sound like this came out of nowhere. Reddit has been letting people beta test this for months.

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#117

Post by notatoad »

iampims wrote: post #55
radiorental wrote: post #39

Top tier sites like reddit should not drop large, disruptive, releases like this. Take Amazon for example. If they went from the design 5-7 years ago straight to the current design, there would be uproar, Stock price dip etc. The incremental approach allows the site owner to both roll back bad ideas but also condition users into where the design is heading. (Correction: not Conde Nast) The owner, has a plan, which is…

I believe they are no longer owned by Condé Nast.

Correct, sort of. They are still owned by Conde Nast's parent company

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#118

Post by joper90 »

nopressure wrote: post #86
FridgeSeal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're on iOS, use Apollo instead: https://apolloapp.io/ Hands down the best Reddit app for iOS.

Does it show ads?

Nope, well except the standard Reddit posts that are obviously ads...

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#119

Post by TeMPOraL »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #111
PostOnce wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take a lot of genius, time, or money to set a link w/ url parameters or use a standard html form for e.g. upvoting or comment submission, and then override that with javascript for fancier UI / AJAX / avoid redirects, etc -- i.e., extra polish, rather than it being the only option and the site just becomes nonfunctional instead of degrading gracefully. This benefits more than just one tiny group of users:…

You're thinking as a developer and not as a business. A website that works perfectly well for 99% of visitors and adds the pizazz to keep them on the site is the goal.

Complaining about decisions like these is a form of market pressure. A weak one, but still within the rules of the business game.

Re: Reddit's redesign could kill discussion subreddits

#120

Post by reitanqild »

Karunamon wrote: post #109
TeMPOraL wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad engineering in 2018 is still bad engineering. JS can be used to enhance the experience, and even build things otherwise impossible in the browser, and it's totally justified. But taking the newest, shinest web application framework and turning what's a tree of regular web documents into a web application, with data unaccessible if you don't run the entirety of its JS? That's just wrong.

At the risk of snark I don't have a clear way around, your definition of "good engineering" appears to be the same one that thinks a modern toilet is no better than a hole in the ground. Nobody that pays for developer time in 2018 is going to optimize their site for people that go out of their way to willfully turn off part of the stack. It's not gonna happen. Effort for no reward. The protocol you describe, just a b…

> Nobody that pays for developer time in 2018 is going to optimize their site for people that go out of their way to willfully turn off part of the stack. It's not gonna happen.

FWIW it takes less developer time to make a decent website without Javascript.

Javascript also introduces risks that are non existent in static pages.

Now if theese JS sites were super snappy and worked well offline etc I'd say probably wort it.

But I guess they are often worse that a plain old web page.

- someone who has created static and dynamic webpages since late last millenium

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