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Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

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Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#111

Post by [deleted] »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #32
tc wrote: post #18

Tesla probably shouldn't be saying anything about this at all, even just to avoid giving it more news cycles. But if they were going to say something, here's what they should have said the first time. ---- We take great care in building our cars to save lives. Forty thousands Americans die on the roads each year. That's a statistic. But even a single death of a Tesla driver or passenger is a tragedy. This has affecte…

What a stark difference in tone this kind of statement would have made. Tesla's statement reeks of a desire to protect themselves from liability or a potential lawsuit. It's very sad to see them adopting such language in the face of such a tragedy.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#112

Post by etjossem »

Analemma_ wrote: post #109
etjossem wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who knows what an autopilot [1] is understands that it does not make an aircraft autonomous. It's an assistive device - a stabilizer for wings and pitch. To call the Tesla Model S an "autonomous vehicle" simply because it has a feature called autopilot is disingenuous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot

This fails the Reasonable Person test. Most people on the street are not aviators, and their assumption is that "autopilot = full autonomy", which is entirely understandable.

"Tesla is extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel. This reminder is made every single time Autopilot is engaged."

A reasonable person would not take this to mean that the car is driverless.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#113

Post by kid0m4n »

cjhopman wrote: post #88
jhall1468 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twice now people using absolutely stupid arguments to defend the driver here. He knew what Autopilot was and STILL took his hands off the wheel. Autopilot is a name in the same way Amazon.com isn't a damn rain forest. It's a term taken from aviation, but "autopilot" in a plane and "Autopilot" in a Tesla aren't even remotely the same thing. And literally everyone understands that, yet any time this occurs we start bla…

> STILL took his hands off the wheel That's not clear. The car didn't detect his hands on the wheel, but that doesn't mean his hands weren't on it. Tesla's implementation of hand detection (like many of their other systems) is rather unreliable.

So he had his hands on the wheel and took no action for 6 seconds while driving straight to the barrier. Doesn't make it look any better for the driver TBH.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#114

Post by Gerardo1 »

patcheudor wrote: post #107
tc wrote: post #18

Tesla probably shouldn't be saying anything about this at all, even just to avoid giving it more news cycles. But if they were going to say something, here's what they should have said the first time. ---- We take great care in building our cars to save lives. Forty thousands Americans die on the roads each year. That's a statistic. But even a single death of a Tesla driver or passenger is a tragedy. This has affecte…

>t's a tool to help attentive drivers avoid accidents that might have otherwise occurred. This needs far more discussion. I just don't buy it. I don't believe that you can have a car engaged in auto-drive mode and remain attentive. I think our psychology won't allow it. When driving, I find that I must be engaged and on long trips I don't even enable cruise control because taking the accelerator input away from me is…

This same thing can be said of auto-pilot in planes.

Not saying it invalidates your argument, just that there are pretty wide-reaching consequences to that idea.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#115

Post by darkstar999 »

cpt1138 wrote: post #105
timewarrior wrote: post #43

I own a Model X. I love the car in many ways. However, I also think the automation is stupider than a 2 year old. Would you trust a 2 year old to drive your car or to decide when to close your Garage door? I use the Auto-Steer, only when road is empty, is in a reasonably straight line and I am in the middle lane of at least 3 lane road. Otherwise I don't use it. It might also be fine to use it in stop and go on a div…

If the usage is so subjective, I can't even understand why its allowed. You seem to be saying its no better than a two year old driving. You create a situation in which its "ok" for a two year old to drive? We have laws that state no 2yo's are allowed to be behind the wheel. Why is this 2yo allowed at all?

The same reason cruise control is allowed.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#116

Post by imh »

It should be noted that the 40% crash reduction they keep quoting is done with an extremely simplistic analysis and is only a brief paragraph of the full report. https://www.scribd.com/embeds/337007075/content?start_page=1...

It's not nearly as definitive as people (and Tesla) seem to claim it as.

edit: The full analysis (from page 10 of the link):

>5.4 Crash rates. ODI analyzed mileage and airbag deployment data supplied by Tesla for all MY 2014 through 2016 Model S and 2016 Model X vehicles equipped with the Autopilot Technology Package, either installed in the vehicle when sold or through an OTA update, to calculate crash rates by miles travelled prior to^21 and after Autopilot installation.^22 Figure 11 shows the rates calculated by ODI for airbag deployment crashes in the subject Tesla vehicles before and after Autosteer installation. The data show that the Tesla vehicles crash rate dropped by almost 40 percent after Autosteer installation.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#117

Post by Dwolb »

tc wrote: post #18

Tesla probably shouldn't be saying anything about this at all, even just to avoid giving it more news cycles. But if they were going to say something, here's what they should have said the first time. ---- We take great care in building our cars to save lives. Forty thousands Americans die on the roads each year. That's a statistic. But even a single death of a Tesla driver or passenger is a tragedy. This has affecte…

Tesla need to stop calling it 'Autopilot'.

The name implies drivers don't need to drive and is most likely a big reason drivers are lured into a false sense of security.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#118

Post by chaboud »

josecurioso wrote: post #69

The reason tesla needs to make this kind of statements is very simple: Guy in a renault has this accident and it is just routine, renault won't see their shares fall and there will be next to no coverage of the incident. In the case of tesla any accident gets to the front page of reddit, trends in twitter, is shared in facebook, let alone printed on newspapers, these statements are needed to fight that amount of bad…

Well, to be fair, if someone in the US is able to find a running Renault that can go faster than 30mph under its own power, it's pretty exceptional.

I think that Tesla's response is tone-deaf and ill-advised. I'm not presently a Tesla shareholder, but I do have a Model 3 reservation coming up soon.

Guess which one of those this public statement makes me want to change...

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#119

Post by etjossem »

bjl wrote: post #93
redial wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, that damned media again misinforming people. Who could have expected a feature called AUTOPILOT to mean self driving, who?!

Not to mention the fact that the marketing around it strongly encourages that interpretation (showing people driving without touching the steering wheel, etc.)

This is the part that is upsetting to me, not the name of the feature. "Fully self-driving capability" suggests that it is one hundred percent self-driving (and therefore will not require a human to drive it). That part's a lie, and a dangerous one.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#120

Post by mrguyorama »

Gerardo1 wrote: post #114
patcheudor wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>t's a tool to help attentive drivers avoid accidents that might have otherwise occurred. This needs far more discussion. I just don't buy it. I don't believe that you can have a car engaged in auto-drive mode and remain attentive. I think our psychology won't allow it. When driving, I find that I must be engaged and on long trips I don't even enable cruise control because taking the accelerator input away from me is…

This same thing can be said of auto-pilot in planes. Not saying it invalidates your argument, just that there are pretty wide-reaching consequences to that idea.

Which is why pilots are still in control of the plane while autopilot is active. Even while active, there is still a "pilot flying" and pilots are still responsible for scanning gauges and readouts and verifying the autopilot is doing what they expect. They do not just turn on autopilot and goof off
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