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SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

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Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#111
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not under the jurisdiction of a US agency.

What gives that agency jurisdiction over things in orbit? This whole thing seems really strange.

The US Government has granted NOAA that authority over American companies and the things they put into orbit.

They don’t have that authority over things OTHER countries and their companies put into orbit.

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a farce that you need a license to take pictures at all. I'm sure Russian and Chinese satellites already take photos of the US military bases regularly.

They better as fuck not be : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Arms_Limitation_Talk... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/START_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty

Those have all either expired or weren't ratified, and the current treaty (New START) explicitly allows satellite monitoring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_START

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#113
post #49

It's a bit of a farce to classify these cameras stuck on the side of a rocket with horrible resolution and which are clearly not designed to effectively image the surface of the earth as "remote sensing systems." The definition in the law even specifically excludes "Small, hand-held cameras shall not be considered remote sensing space system," i guess so that astronauts don't have to get a license 12 months before ev…

> Tiny cameras stuck to the side of SpaceX rockets should not be classified as "remote sensing systems." I would say they should not generally be classified as "remote sensing systems." 'Cause you know someone would push things too far.

Can't think of anyone that ever take a situation and abuse it, push it too far, do something it wasn't intended to by its initial design... definitely wouldn't consider anyone such as law enforcement agencies or city, state or federal government doing any such thing... because you know, people are reasonable, right?

I guess abusing loopholes is the monopoly of authority.

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#115
post #93

Good grief this whole thing is stupid. 1) The idea that an NOAA regulation is going to stop somebody from acting militarily against the US. (A Chinese military command somewhere: "Sir! We cannot point our spy satellites at the earth yet because the US NOAA hasn't issued us a license yet!" "DRATS!") 2) The idea that somebody doing something nefarious would even be sharing this information with anybody. 3) The idea tha…

I think the idea is more that the regulation will stop private U.S. companies from acting militarily against other countries. E.g., the U.S. has a treaty with Israel that forbids publishing high-resolution satellite imagery of Israel, and one of the functions of the licensing system is to implement that treaty.

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#116
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the US regulates US-based companies, just like in any other field. This includes making the ability to conduct large scale surveillance of the earth's surface subject to license. I wonder how that comports with this limitation on the U.S.: ‘Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press …’ Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me that if they launched the camera, they have a right to publ…

Why don't you try your theory about it being impossible to prohibit photos/videos by wandering into a military facility with a camera and explaining to the angry men with guns that they can't legally interfere with you? I'll wait for you to report back on how that goes.

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Extremely small office" is a typical public sector reply in the PIIGS in order to get a bribe to 'make things move faster'. Or a piece of bureacracy in order to harass anyone we want, anytime we want. Also.. an "Act" on what to do in Space? Seriously? So when that thing flies over (e.g.) Japan should it follow Japan's laws? Or we only count the base location? In which case movie it to (e.g.) Greenland and problem so…

Your narrow-minded anger is ill-informed. First, there are quite a few very obvious reasons why it's in humanity's interest to regulate space missions. You want to minimise space debris, for example, because it could result in a series of collisions making near-earth orbits a wasteland you can't cross. That's why there are rules on the size, structure, orbits, data sharing, disposal mechanisms and other features of s…

It seems to me that you're arguing broadly that space regulation, generally speaking, could, in principle, be good. I agree with that.

Now, do you have any arguments in favor of the regulatory restrictions on SpaceX lauch videos?

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>First, there are quite a few very obvious reasons why it's in humanity's interest to regulate space missions. You want to minimise space debris, for example, because it could result in a series of collisions making near-earth orbits a wasteland you can't cross. Preventing space debris is not related to this topic in the least. Neither is preventing a "space arms race". >Providing a potentially understaffed office wi…

> Preventing space debris is not related to this topic in the least. Neither is preventing a "space arms race". The relation is OP's complete and naive refusal to entertain the possibility and usefulness of regulating private activity in space. > It seems to me that the best way to solve this problem is to get rid of this useless office. > I don't think it's good discussion etiquette to link to an unreadable wall of…

> (5) Ensure that unenhanced data collected by licensed private remote sensing space systems concerning the territory of any country are made available to the government of that country upon its request, as soon as such data are available and on reasonable commercial terms and conditions as appropriate;

#5: The forign policy / state dept / military parts of the US govt want to minimize potential risk of domestic US remote-sensing companies accidentally or deliberatly antagonizing a foreign government... seems prima facie reasonable.

To gain leverage during diplomatic negotiations, a foreign power could take the position that one of our "so-called" private civillian satellite companies was actually a front for a state intelligence operation. It would be difficult for state dept to provide evidence to the contrary if they didn't already have contacts with each private space company.

Is anyone aware of a diplomatic complaint ever being made along these lines? Maybe in the cablegate archives?

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#119

So SpaceX either knew about the regulation and ignored it (without clarifying with the regulatory body if it applied to them), or didn't know about the regulation. I'm not sure which is worse but both are bad. I think SpaceX is doing cool, groundbreaking stuff, but they should be following the rules.

It's impossible to keep track of all the laws and regulations one must follow. More gets printed every week than anyone could glance through, let alone read. The archives are even more impossible.

With an effort, a large organization can be maybe probably mostly in the clear, but no amount of budget and perfectionism can get anyone definitely in the clear who is actually doing something.

Re: SpaceX can't broadcast Earth images because of a murky license

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a farce that you need a license to take pictures at all. I'm sure Russian and Chinese satellites already take photos of the US military bases regularly.

They better as fuck not be : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Arms_Limitation_Talk... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/START_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty

Since we're talking about cameras and not missiles, I ctrl+f'd for "picture" and "camera" on all of those links and didn't see any results. Do those treaties prohibit cameras?
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