Why are diapers so expensive? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#111

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:38 AM UTC

FuckOffNeemo wrote: post #92

lulmerchant wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if the numbers in the comment you're referring to are correct, but let's assume they're close enough and do the math. If I pay $5 every other day for 10 diapers, then I'm paying ~$75/month for 150 diapers. $0.50/diaper, $2.50/day. If I take a pay day loan of $30 for a 200 pack of diapers, then I've just brought a 40 day supply of diapers. $0.15/diaper, $0.75/day. After 16 days I've recouped my original i…

Good luck finding a legal loan shark that only charges $10. I can only speak from the fees here in Australia but here, for a small loan. You're looking at a minimum fee of 200-300% and that's assuming you pay on time. This is why legal loan sharks exist, and if this method actually did work as you intended it, why do legal loan sharks still exist? Couldn't you apply your macroeconomics to everything? Food? Nappies? W…

[deleted]

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#112

Post by Aeolun » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:39 AM UTC

brohoolio wrote: post #89

djrogers wrote: post #28

There are a couple of ‘facts’ listed here that don’t line up with my current reality and very recent knowledge (3 kids, most recent is 18mo). First off, 12 changes a day is a huge outlier - even for a newborn. 8 would be a more reasonable number, and it drops down to the 4-6 range in the first year, and by now we’re at 3 if we don’t go swimming. Second item that sounds waaay off is $1000/yr for diapers. Again, that h…

12 changes a day is not an outlier for a newborn, it’s normal. My son is 18 months and we change him probably 6 times a day at least. Diaper pricing is dependent on how many you buy at once, I buy giant boxes so my unit cost is low. If you don’t have $40 to buy the giant box, but only $10 to buy a small package. You are paying twice the unit cost.

> 12 changes a day is not an outlier

> we change him probably 6 times a day at least

Does not compute... 6 times a day is not 12 times a day.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#113

Post by romwell » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:39 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #87

nroach wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, where relative humidity is often 60-90%, this form of drying would result in moldy cloth, not dry diapers. My guess is Tampa's microclimate is probably similar and line drying isn't an option.

How do you think people washed and dried clothes there 100 years ago? How do you think they do it in more humid and poorer places today? Do you leave your towel on the towel rack and let it dry there or do you throw it in the dryer every time? Mold thrives in moist, dark places, not most sunny ones.

A 100 years ago housekeeping was a full-time job, and quality of life was generally pretty bad.

Also the society functioned differently; one middle-class salary could sustain a middle-class family, for one.

We no longer live in that reality, nor would anyone want to.

It's like saying that homeless people are OK because there were no buildings in prehistoric times.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#114

Post by FuckOffNeemo » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:41 AM UTC

lulmerchant wrote: post #98

FuckOffNeemo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck finding a legal loan shark that only charges $10. I can only speak from the fees here in Australia but here, for a small loan. You're looking at a minimum fee of 200-300% and that's assuming you pay on time. This is why legal loan sharks exist, and if this method actually did work as you intended it, why do legal loan sharks still exist? Couldn't you apply your macroeconomics to everything? Food? Nappies? W…

At 200% you still come out ahead after your first packet of diapers. As somebody who grew up in abject poverty, and who lived in poverty for the first portion of their adult life, better planning will absolutely make situations like this instantaneouly better. When I was poor as hell I put a huge amount of effort into buying in bulk and doing various other things to avoid all of the blindingly obvious poverty traps t…

@lulmerchant

I'm from a poor working background too. You can look through my comment history, topics of poverty, drug abuse and macroeconomics are some of the many topics that typically interest me enough to contribute to the conversation here on Hacker News.

Your logic is absolutely sound, but in the event or period where you've taken the loan and have to pay it off in 1-2 weeks. What happens when said parents child gets sick and requires more nappies that day?

Perhaps they need medication.

Maybe they lost some cash walking to the grocery store.

They lost a days work.

There's no room for error and when or if that occurs. The entire benefit goes backwards and you end up losing so much more than you hoped to gain.

There's a whole myriad of reasons that could contribute to this loan going backwards when you have 0 disposable income.

But if you're borrowing $30 for nappies, it would not take much to then push you outside of that fortnightly budget so you are not able to meet your legal loan sharks contractual payments and that, by definition, is a financial slippery slope.

The financial industry relies on people like this, I would assume for every credit card owner that has 55 interest days free or a 0% balance transfer. There's another 9 who don't pay off in time and will incur interest charges and fees and make the entire business venture profitable.

Legal Loan sharks are profit driven, they are not providers of care, and they are not their to help you get ahead so you do not need to use their services again. Their business model is the exact opposite. They assume you will need to go back, and go back repeatedly.

You'd do well to watch Episode 2 of Dirty Money on Netflix - Payday. The entire episode is essentially a business case for why Loan Sharks should be avoided at all costs.

But the thing is, your maths is _correct_. So instead why can't we loan this person who lives in poverty from non-profits and similar who want to _help_ if it's so logically sound that allowing those in poverty to buy in bulk, will allow them to get ahead?

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#115

Post by cwhatididtheir » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:41 AM UTC

s4vi0r wrote: post #82

chrissnell wrote: post #54

This article is so frustrating. The helplessness and dependence are just sad. Cloth diapers cost less than $1.50 each in a 10-pack. If you are poor enough, you can wash them in a bucket with bar soap. That's what virtually everyone did before washers were invented. I'm saddened that this girl didn't figure this out. I know first-hand, when you're poor and desperate, you figure shit out. Unless, of course, you have a…

Jesus, your comment and the other replies just straight up reek of privilege/ignorance. What you're suggesting is obviously the pragmatic choice - obviously, if she's poor as shit and can't afford regular diapers, using reusable cloth ones is a great solution. But that's not the fucking point of the article - its $CURRENT_YEAR in the richest country in the world, this absolutely shouldn't be a thing that happens in t…

Triggered! I am a little shocked you found the comment so infuriating. I think the original comment proved that there is a perfectly satisfiable diaper solution that even poor Americans can easily afford. It seems reasonable that there should be innovation in the industry so that people of all income levels can be satisfied. If $1,000/year is not a burden to your family, then you should have the option to purchase a better, more convenient diaper for your child if the demand is high enough for the market to support it.

I do agree with you that it is absolutely unreasonable in this day and age for a child to go without diapers or their other basic needs fully satisfied. But I think the original comment was pointing out that there are perfectly reasonable alternatives.

Also, if you find yourself having to say "I'm not even a communist or anything," it might be time to recalibrate.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#116

Post by freeflight » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:41 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #94

ILikeConemowk wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At which point did we, as a society, settle the philosophical conundrum that is taking an unborn life? Cells, fetus or baby? What is it? Since when? Why? How should it be done? I'm not religious at all but it seems to me that, at least tangentially, most religious believes are rooted in philosophical unknowns and feeling of uncertainty. Religious people then resort to their faith of choice as a way to find answers. T…

Yes, it's a cheap shot to just dismiss it all as religious and idiotic. Except in self-defense or war, societies generally aren't OK with killing people. But when do fetuses become people? Some cultures were OK with parents (or at least, fathers) killing children younger than eight years. Many have gone with birth as the cutoff. There is an argument that conception is the cutoff. But on the other hand, the relationsh…

> So anyway, it's not just about religion.

But religion played and still plays a large role in forming these discussions because of its supposedly unique position as a "moral compass" for many cultures over the course of history.

Imho this is especially evident if you take a look cloning and stem-cell research in general. While most of the West is still busy trying to figure out how to make it compatible with Christian ideals of life, China, in their usual pragmatism, just goes ahead and does it because they don't have a comparable lobby stopping them from doing it.

In that regard, it is pretty much religion that put a stop sign there and even tho this debate is anything but new, I'm not really sure we've actually progressed at all with said debate, it rather feels like decades of stalemate.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#117

Post by jiggunjer » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:42 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #107

dandare wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloth diapers must be washed and boiled throughly to be hygienic.

This is certainly true if you are running a daycare, hospital, or similar. It's also true when diapers change ownership, for example when used ones are sold. If you'll be putting them right back on the same kid, then no. Remember, you don't boil the kid's ass to be hygienic. You'll be putting that diaper on an unboiled ass. The diaper doesn't need to be boiled.

I think the hygiene aspect is about long-term accumulation of pathogens. You bathe the baby several times a week if not daily. Then you put on a cloth that has been exposed to many pathogens over X time. But I guess boiling shouldn't take a day, since we can pasteurize milk in a very short time.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#118

Post by rukittenme » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:42 AM UTC

s4vi0r wrote: post #82

chrissnell wrote: post #54

This article is so frustrating. The helplessness and dependence are just sad. Cloth diapers cost less than $1.50 each in a 10-pack. If you are poor enough, you can wash them in a bucket with bar soap. That's what virtually everyone did before washers were invented. I'm saddened that this girl didn't figure this out. I know first-hand, when you're poor and desperate, you figure shit out. Unless, of course, you have a…

Jesus, your comment and the other replies just straight up reek of privilege/ignorance. What you're suggesting is obviously the pragmatic choice - obviously, if she's poor as shit and can't afford regular diapers, using reusable cloth ones is a great solution. But that's not the fucking point of the article - its $CURRENT_YEAR in the richest country in the world, this absolutely shouldn't be a thing that happens in t…

I'm really tired of hearing the argument "we're the richest country on Earth and "X" still happens!"

Of course "X" still happens. "X" is lower on our priorities list than other more pressing issues. Are diapers really the cross we're going to die on now?

We spend ~$3tn helping people every year (federal, state, and local). I think its safe to assume the "richest country on Earth" is trying.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#119

Post by sleet » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:44 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #112

brohoolio wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 changes a day is not an outlier for a newborn, it’s normal. My son is 18 months and we change him probably 6 times a day at least. Diaper pricing is dependent on how many you buy at once, I buy giant boxes so my unit cost is low. If you don’t have $40 to buy the giant box, but only $10 to buy a small package. You are paying twice the unit cost.

> 12 changes a day is not an outlier > we change him probably 6 times a day at least Does not compute... 6 times a day is not 12 times a day.

You seem to have cut out the parts that make it compute. Try reading the words in-between your quotes.

Re: Why are diapers so expensive?

#120

Post by adrr » Thu, Apr 05, 2018, 6:46 AM UTC

lulmerchant wrote: post #98

FuckOffNeemo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck finding a legal loan shark that only charges $10. I can only speak from the fees here in Australia but here, for a small loan. You're looking at a minimum fee of 200-300% and that's assuming you pay on time. This is why legal loan sharks exist, and if this method actually did work as you intended it, why do legal loan sharks still exist? Couldn't you apply your macroeconomics to everything? Food? Nappies? W…

At 200% you still come out ahead after your first packet of diapers. As somebody who grew up in abject poverty, and who lived in poverty for the first portion of their adult life, better planning will absolutely make situations like this instantaneouly better. When I was poor as hell I put a huge amount of effort into buying in bulk and doing various other things to avoid all of the blindingly obvious poverty traps t…

Most of us went to college and lived off poverty level income. I ate potatoes, and ramen for years with a 10/hr part time job and still managed to save enough money to go on trips.

It doesn't take much time to put together a budget and if you lack the knowledge i am sure you can find free community classes to get basic budgeting skills. I signed up to volunteer at one but they had too many volunteers.

People need to get out this learned helplessness and make effort to improve their lives.